Economic Inequality (1)
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Mark: Hi, I'm Mark Fellows and welcome back to The Impossible Network. Today, taking a bit of a change in direction, I wanna discuss something that's been on my mind. Something I think has probably been a lot of people's minds Recently. Economic inequality over the last year on the streets of San Francisco, near where I'm living, but also in New York, where I've recently visited Austin, where I used to live.

Mark: London and Edinburgh, Scotland. I've witnessed what appears to be increasing economic inequality. And if you've read the economic data or listened to the news media recently, whether right or left leaning, you'll probably be left in little doubt that we do have a pretty large problem. So here's my question.

Mark: If we know economic inequ is increasingly out of control, why isn't anything changing? Okay, well, let's start with the problem. I recently listened to Gary Stevenson on a number of podcasts, and if [00:01:00] you haven't heard of him. He's a Londoner ex trader and now economist and something of a truth teller. He points out a pretty stark picture of what's been happening economically since pretty much the 1980s, and he doesn't pull any punches.

Mark: He states that the issue is that wealth hasn't just trickled up. It's been hoovered up, vacuumed really from the middle class and the government straight into the hands of the already wealthy. This isn't just the bug in the system, it's become a feature built in, driven by policies like favorable tax codes and snowballing effect of asset ownership, where if you already have stuff, it just keeps multiplying.

Mark: Meanwhile, the middle class, it's increasingly debt ridden and less able to spend social mobility slowed to AC crawl. And as Stevenson says these days, your success often comes down to one thing, who your family is. Now, here's the part that really interests me. Despite all the evidence in Gary Stevenson's, overwhelming logic, there's just silence.

Mark: Or [00:02:00] worse, is it indifference. The reason Stevenson gives for that is that the argument over why it's happening, what can be done about it hasn't been won. And that got me thinking. Maybe it's not about the argument, maybe it's not about the facts or the data. Maybe it's about the stories we're living by, and that's where my old guest, John Alexander's work.

Mark: Is relevant, and his book Citizens is very salient. He says that the stories we live by about who we are, what our role is in society, shape not just how we see the world, but what we even believe is possible. 

Jon: that we are trapped in what I call the consumer story, which is a, a story that says that the right thing for us to do is to pursue self interest, to, to look out, to suits us best from those that are offered on the basis that individual self interest will add up to collective interest and deliver the best society as a whole. Like it's not a, 

Mark: So let me zoom out a bit and discuss John's theory in a bit more detail. First, he says, we live the subject story.

Mark: For centuries, we were subjects of [00:03:00] kings, dictators, states, fiefdoms. Our role was just to obey in exchange for safety. Then post World War ii, the consumer story kicked in and is still running the show today. The idea being, if I can act in my self-interest, buy the best product, vote for the best option, that'll magically add up to a better world, Milton Friedman would've loved it.

Mark: But here's the twist. That story blocks conversation about inequality in some sneaky, powerful ways. For one, it individualizes everything. If you're rich, you must have worked hard. If you're struggling, maybe you didn't. A meritocracy ladder in action. So when Gary talks about structural inequality, asset bubbles, tax manipulation, it doesn't land because within the consumer story, we're not trained to look at systems.

Mark: We're trained to look in the mirror. Secondly, it feeds passivity. My job in this worldview is to choose swipe left click, buy vote every couple of years, but ask who wrote the options on the ballot and [00:04:00] why the same few names keep appearing. That's outside the frame. We're too busy optimizing our choices to question the structure of the system, offering them, and then this surprised me.

Mark: The old subject story, it still lurks in the background. When things get complex or chaotic, we fall back on authority. We wait for experts or leaders to step in. Populists know this, they hijack that impulse offer easy answers, double down on the various systems they claim to disrupt. It's everywhere. When you start to look asset bubbles framed as smart investing tax reform always about your bill.

Mark: The structure, surveillance, capitalism, just better advertising, not data mining machine reinforcing your identity as a consumer. Even media plays a role. Studies show it amplifies personal stories over systemic issues and reinforces beliefs like meritocracy that keep us from asking deeper questions. So yeah, these stories, they don't just shape how we see the world.

Mark: They shape what gets through. They're the mental ad blockers for systemic [00:05:00] critique. Until we recognize that inequality won't just feel like shouting into the wind, it will be. So if the subject consumer stories are part of the problem, what's the alternative? Well, that's where John Alexander offers something powerful, something I've been hearing more about lately.

Mark: He calls it the Citizen Story, and it's a shift, a big one. It's a story where I'm not just a self-interested consumer or a passive subject waiting for someone else to fix things. It's a story where humans, me, you, all of us, are seen as inherently capable, creative, collaborative, and even caring. I don't just choose from the menu, I help write the damn thing.

Mark: And that vision aligns so closely with what Gary Stevenson's calling for. He's not asking for a better economic forecast, he's asking for public reckoning, a real grounded conversation about inequality. But for that to happen, we need participation, not just opinion. We need citizens, not spectators. [00:06:00] So then the question becomes, how do we live into the citizen story?

Mark: John Alexander talks about practices that build the muscle of citizenship. Things like participatory democracy with participatory budgeting. Citizen councils where people decide directly how public money gets spent. It's like civic training on wheels, small actions that rebuild trust agency and connection.

Mark: Organizations can lean into this too. Stop seeing people as users or consumers or customers and start engaging them as co-creators, partners in shaping something bigger than a single transaction. And individually, look, I'm not above it. We're all being shaped by the consumer culture. I was part of it working in advertising all my career.

Mark: We're soaking in it. But maybe the move here is just to start noticing to resist the autopilot. So I can choose to value connection over consumption. I can practice interdependence by asking for help, which to be honest, I'm pretty terrible at or by offering that help tiny [00:07:00] things, but they rewire how we see each other.

Mark: Another guest, Ashley, US Skin talks about this in more detail. Policy matters too. Economic justice isn't just about redistributing wealth, it's about making space for people to show up as citizens. Things like progressive taxation. Campaign finance reform, better civic education. These aren't just technical fixes.

Mark: They're narrative scaffolding. They support a different story. Now, look, I'm not naive. Whatever some people might say, this shift won't be easy. The group of consumerism runs deep and even well-meaning participatory efforts can become performative or even shallow. But the potential, it's enormous transformative.

Mark: So circling back to that original question, why hasn't the argument has Stevenson says, against inequality landed? Maybe as John Alexander puts it, we're trying to fix a story from [00:08:00] inside the same story that caused the problem. The data's clear, the damage is clear, but the frame we're viewing it through the consumer first authority differential lens, blunts the urgency, dulls the edge.

Mark: Winning Gar Stevenson's argument isn't about better charts. It's about changing the story. Stepping out of the roles we've been handed into something more powerful, more collective. It means seeing ourselves not just as isolated individuals chasing our own gain, but citizens with agency, with responsibility and the ability as co-authors in the future, our future, our community's future, our neighborhood's future, our country's future.

Mark: So I'll leave you with this. What stories are shaping how you see the economy? Where do you see the citizen story already showing up in your neighborhood, your workplace, your life? So that's it for this episode of The Impossible Network. As always, thank you for joining me as I [00:09:00] wander through these ideas, and you can find resources, transcripts, and links to John's work in the show notes.

Mark: And finally, if something in this episode sparked something in new, tell me. But more importantly, tell a friend, tell a stranger, discuss it around a dinner party at work, over a zoom call, because that's how stories spread. So until next time. 

Mark: Okay, that's all for now, folks. Now here's my ask of you. Please follow this podcast on Apple or Spotify or whatever player you use. Also, please subscribe to our new random Collisions newsletter. We really are working to build a global community of action takers, action engines of people that really care about the problems that need solving.

Mark: Thank you very much. We'll see you next time.