mark-f_1_07-03-2024_151520
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[00:00:00] Hugh: one of the ironies of South by Southwest is that so much the event is focused on new technology, new ways to connect via the newest social media app or newest hardware or whatnot. And yet. Every year we do this event, we're struck about halfway through that the most important technology is the oldest technology. It's just. People coming together in a single place and meeting new people, making new connections discovering that joy.

[00:00:31] MacBook Pro Microphone & FaceTime HD Camera-1: And, it's simple, but it's, it's not simple. Bringing people together, in a. place where they can learn, where they can network, where they can be free to express themselves and connect with others. That is again, one of the most basic technologies and still one of, but still one of the most powerful technologies. Today, I'm excited to be joined by Hugh forest. Cool president and chief programming officer for south by [00:01:00] Southwest. 

[00:01:01] For over three decades has been at the helm of one of the most influential events in the world, celebrating creativity at the convergence of music, film, tech, and culture. His journey is a fascinating one rooted in Austin, Texas, a city known for its moniker. Keep Austin weird. 

[00:01:18] And for its vibrant creative scene. From his early days, running a local newspaper to becoming a key figure in the expansion and evolution at south by Southwest. Whose story is one of persistence innovation on a deep commitment to fostering creativity. And our conversation we explore. Uh, his unique upbringing with a Scottish father and an American mother. The impact of Austin's cultural landscape on his development and the pivotal moments that shaped his career.

[00:01:45] We also discuss the challenges and high points of running a globally recognized festival, the role of technology and connecting people and the future of creativity in an increasingly AI and digitally driven world. He shares his [00:02:00] insights on the importance of community. The power of serendipitous encounters. and his vision for the future of south by Southwest and beyond. If you're a creative person, regardless of domain, I'm sure you're going to enjoy this conversation. As we uncovered the human side of one of the driving forces behind south by. Arguably the world's most dynamic event. Now over to Hugh. 

[00:02:22] Mark: Hugh, welcome to the Impossible Network. It's great to have you here.

[00:02:25] Hugh: Thanks, Mark. It's great to be here. I'm excited about our upcoming conversation.

[00:02:31] Mark: Okay, well let's jump in with the first big question. Who are you as a human being?

[00:02:35] Hugh: Who am I as a human being? That is not fair to ask such a weighty question to lead off. I think that, after several decades quote unquote, on this planet earth, I'm still not quite sure who I am as a human being. I hope that I on my best days, I'm kind and creative and that, that I, [00:03:00] try to add more value to the world than I take out of the world.

[00:03:03] How's that?

[00:03:04] Mark: Sounds pretty much on point given the role you fulfill in South by Southwest and its mission statement of enabling creative people to achieve their goals. So you seem to be straight out of central casting for South by. But the big question is, and we'll come on and talk about South by, if you are this innately kind and creative individual. Who or what made you you, given that you grew up in Austin, Texas, which has a moniker, Keep Austin Weird, and with a combination of Scottish father and American mother, and the journey you took, which is fascinating, as you grew up in Austin, perhaps you could reflect on that.

[00:03:45] Hugh: Yes. I am a Austin native. When I grew up in Austin, certainly a much smaller city than it is now, a city that is much more dominated by. University of Texas is now a college town, if you will. Great spot to, to [00:04:00] grow up very strong live music scene when I was a teenager here and in my twenties as there is now, but maybe the music scene was even more important then than there is now.

[00:04:13] I had a lot of different inputs in my life. My dad, a scientist, My mom did some science stuff, but maybe a little more arts focused. My dad, as you mentioned uh, similar to you from Scotland and fiercely, fiercely Scottish. He never he, he lived here for 60 years. He never got a U S citizenship.

[00:04:36] He always lived on a green card. And never gave up any of his uh, all the, all the Things he loved about Scotland. It was the only one from his family who was over here. But probably those, those different influences, were one of the things that, that has pushed me to, to pursue a lot of different things.

[00:04:55] I think that, that, you know, one of the things that, that we [00:05:00] do well at South by Southwest and that, mirrors kind of my life experiences is pulling together a lot of different. Different things that may not look related, but but they all have some kind of common theme, and that common theme being being creativity.

[00:05:16] But again, that that that is very much out of the background of growing up in Austin.

[00:05:22] Mark: Because your father was apart from, I believe he was a very good rugby player, played for London Scottish, but was an ardent, rugby fan, but an academic and a professor. I mean, not to say that people in the sciences they have to be creative. I mean, Einstein obviously sort of accredited his curiosity for his point of difference to other scientists.

[00:05:42] Where do you think your creativity came from? Was it innate or was it nurtured by your father or your mother or even potentially at school?

[00:05:50] Hugh: Yeah, I think a lot of it, was nurtured by my, by my parents, by my friends, again, by, by this, this [00:06:00] Austin, that was just a breeding ground of creativity also. My college experience, I went to a small liberal arts college in Ohio called Kenyon College, and I think that liberal arts ethos of, of mixing together a lot of different disciplines is something that we've always, or something that very much has impacted the way that, That, we've programmed or that I've directed programming at South by Southwest, where you have a lot of different things put together in one, you know, one event.

[00:06:35] So I, I am. Again, always tend to be more inspired by others and wonder why I'm not as creative as they are, or as, as interesting or as, as brilliant as they are but managed to absorb some of what others do. And that's, that's great. Serve me. Well,

[00:06:55] Mark: Because I, I understand that you, although you went to Kenyon [00:07:00] College do liberal arts and you, you had this dual ambition. You want to be a writer, but you had aspirations to be a basketball player.

[00:07:07] Hugh: you've done your homework. Well, Mark I mean, I, I loved playing basketball for as long as I could play basketball. I played in college. I played for 20 years after college until my body kind of said enough. And if I'd been able to, you know, if I'd been better and could have played professional, I would have done that.

[00:07:30] Mark: I bet your father was going, what's happened? I mean, you're, you're, you're a strapping guy. You should have been playing in the front row for a rugby team.

[00:07:37] Hugh: Yeah. Unfortunately, the rugby team was not as, not as good as the basketball team at Kenyon and the Kenyon basketball team wasn't that good either. But you know, I, I was, the, the basketball stuff was heck a lot of fun. I ended up at Kenyon because. They did have a strong, literature program there.

[00:07:56] It was something that I always thought I wanted to be. I a [00:08:00] writer. I, I had written for my junior high school and high school newspaper. I still want to be a writer when I grow up. I, I think I'm, however, permanently stuck in the, you know, early Twitter days of 140 characters. That's not quite true.

[00:08:17] I'm I can muddle my way through relative short things, but I've I haven't yet achieved the goal of, say, writing something longer, a novel, something like that, which would be wonderful to do at some point, I'm not there yet in my journey, however. 

[00:08:32] Mark: I mean, you must have an amazing collection of, insights and lessons from everything you've seen and witnessed itself by from a unique position. You could probably write a really interesting book around creativity. I think that would be fascinating. I'm sure, I'm sure there's probably quite a few stories that could lead to some non fiction as well.

[00:08:54] Hugh: yes, there are stories. Many of them should not be leaked out for [00:09:00] nonfiction or whatnot. But yeah, I've being at South by Southwest, has been a wonderful opportunity to connect with creative people, from all different. Industries from all different regions. And that has been, absolutely amazing.

[00:09:17] And, as much as we try to, you know, pull together these, these very creative and innovative minds for our audience, I always, or I almost always find that I'm equally inspired by what they're doing. And, also, always a little bit, humbled by. Again, why are they so creative? And I'm struggling here to, to write a single paragraph or something, but that's, that's life.

[00:09:45] That's where we all think the grass is greener on the other side, right?

[00:09:48] Mark: Yeah, well, I think, well, let's go back, because as you say you struggle with that. Self Eye in itself is a uniquely creative event, and it's evolved over time, and it's [00:10:00] continued to reinvent itself, and you being at the heart of that reinvention. Let's go back to where it all started. And how, how, how your role in it emerged.

[00:10:08] And I believe it was, partly due to you going down an entrepreneurial path when you left college and set up your own newspaper called the Austin Challenger that led you to then encounter some other journalists at the Austin Chronicle who had this fledgling idea. Perhaps you could expand on that.

[00:10:27] Hugh: Yes. Yes. I, I came back from Ohio. One of my roommates in school together, we'd started a newspaper in college, monthly newspaper at that, not a daily newspaper. I thought, well, Hey, we did that in college. It ought to be, I'd be able to do this in Austin. And so I launched this thing called the Austin challenger.

[00:10:50] I usually joke that it was an alternative publication less because of its politics and more because of its publishing schedule because it was supposed to be monthly and it never [00:11:00] quite came out monthly. It was, it was kind of focused on politics, kind of focused on culture. It was much, much smaller than the Austin Chronicle, which had started several years before the Challenger.

[00:11:16] So we were kind of friendly rivals. My very, very small staff, which was mainly myself and a few friends and their staff, which was a little bigger than, Mine, South by Southwest was born out of the Austin Chronicle. And then I got pulled in and born out of the Austin Chronicle in 1987. That was the first year of South by Southwest.

[00:11:38] I got pulled in to South by Southwest a couple of years later. And as you Said it was because I, I had a Mac computer and they didn't have any computer, so I got hired because I had a a Mac plus, or what? It was state of the art at that point. At this point, it's, you know, one, one [00:12:00] thousandth of the functionality of our smartphone.

[00:12:03] But that's how I got pulled into South by Southwest. I was, at that point I was Still doing the challenger, the Austin challenger a little bit. I had a few other part time jobs just to, you know, to, to pay rent and what were very, what was a very cheap rental house at that, that point. I certainly didn't have any inclination when I joined when I joined onto the team in 1989, that this would go on to be something I worked on for the next 30, 35 years, or that the South by Southwest would grow.

[00:12:36] To the be lucky enough to grow to the level it's, it's grown to now. It was simply a, a, a better opportunity than I, than I, had at the time. So it's been amazing, absolutely amazing, absolutely incredible to, you know, kind of have a, front seat to, to witness all this growth, to see all this growth.[00:13:00] 

[00:13:00] When South by Southwest started in 1987. We were entirely focused on music. Again, the music scene in Austin was incredibly strong in the eighties. And that music focus resonated with, with a community immediately with South by Southwest. We added other events and, or other. Verticals in 1994, we added a film portion and what was then called multimedia.

[00:13:28] And I think that really, was a preview of what would, what would come over the next again, 25 30 years where we continued to tweak and pivot and transition. And I think that's one of the many reasons that South by Southwest has survived as long as it has, is that we, we have, we Not been afraid to change the focus embrace new topics, but even within embracing new topics, new focus, understanding that, [00:14:00] that our North star was always this this focus on creativity and creativity in all its many forms.

[00:14:07] And even more so this idea that bringing together creative people from different industries, has a additive impact and that. Different kinds of creative people can different can learn from other different kinds of creative people, and that that can often be the most beneficial kinds of growth and knowledge and learning that you can have of meeting someone from another creative industry.

[00:14:32] Mark: I've got one question. As you're just talking about having your Mac or your Apple computer, I mean, that was early. That was, I mean, that really was before many people had personal computers. And although you were in publishing with the, obviously with your newspaper, the people at the Chronicle didn't obviously have.

[00:14:53] Access to a computer. So what was it that what gave you that impetus or that curiosity [00:15:00] or interest in being an early user of computers? Because that was even pre internet days because the internet didn't really, or the World Wide Web

[00:15:07] Hugh: Yeah, that

[00:15:08] was, until 89.

[00:15:10] well, great question, Mark. I mean, at that point, the Chronicle was Storing all their, South by Southwest, storing all their records, their data within the typesetting machines at the Austin Chronicle. And if you remember typesetting machines from way back when, yeah,

[00:15:30] this was, in advertising before there were, it was quark. So yeah.

[00:15:34] This was this huge, huge machine that had like this eight track cassette thing. That was kind of a version of a floppy disk and it was not very functional. So they were looking for something that was a little more portable and had more functionality. For myself, I had again, been working on this thing called the Austin challenger, this, this quote, alternative newspaper [00:16:00] alternative, because it was publishing schedule.

[00:16:02] I was. Borrowing lots of money from my Scottish father to keep this thing alive. At one point he said to me, you know, there's this new thing called desktop publishing that, I think that you ought to look into because it would save on your typesetting bills, which is your second biggest bill after your printing bill.

[00:16:22] And of course I was 20 years old and I knew much more about, The world than my older father did as these things go. And I said, Oh no, we can't do that. We, we, we have to have this fancy type setting. Yeah. You know, all these else, the whole paper is going to, you know, suffer. Then six months later, I came to my senses and said, let's go with that. Desktop publishing model. And his, the reason he brought this up is he said, well, I'll buy you a, this computer and a, and a laser writer. And I think that'll, you know, extend the life of this publication for X amount longer. And it did we were able to save a lot of money [00:17:00] and, and, you know, it was a very low margin business.

[00:17:04] But it also having that computer, that Mac plus was again, my ticket to South by Southwest. And strangely I kept that, that Mac plus and that, that giant laser writer, which was like, Weighed 50 pounds. I kept that in a storage unit in Portland, Oregon, up until like two years ago. And then I finally liberated those two pieces of hardware also.

[00:17:29] Mark: Wow. that would be in a great museum piece.

[00:17:33] It would be. be, but it's it's not it's only lives in my head now, Mark.

[00:17:39] Okay. Well, as you said that over that time from when you joined the event has evolved to embrace film, the multimedia, the interactive, advent of social media and it's evolved dramatically in that time as has your role now that you're in this [00:18:00] role of chief programming officer, and you also do, obviously outside of South by you have other.

[00:18:07] Non South by passions and activities that keep you busy. It sort of then leads us to the next and the final big question is what are you working to achieve an impact before you shuffle off this mortal coil? and hopefully it's a few years yet. But I mean, clearly you've, you've already impacted many people's lives through South Baye.

[00:18:26] I've got many memories from, from when I first attended in 2008. But you must, I mean, you say you're, you're still probably have ambitions to be a writer. South Baye, as it continues to evolve and you in that role, presumably you have ideas about how you want to see South Baye. Your life evolve and the impact you have with South by 

[00:18:48] Hugh: Yeah.

[00:18:49] on the one hand, I'm extremely proud of a lot of the work that. We, myself and our, our, the team at South by Southwest has done. And, [00:19:00] the, the kinds of. Ideas, speakers, bands, filmmakers, comedians, creative people from all across the, the so many different industries and all across the world that we have showcased and very proud of that.

[00:19:15] On the other hand, you know, we are, we are. Recording this in July 2024, the world is, is more divided than it's ever been before. And so there's a large part of me that thinks, you know, our work here has just begun and also have. No small amount of concern that, that, you know, one of the things that, that helped South by Southwest grow significantly was being in the right place, the right time on social media being part of the social media revolution, having a lot of these early, experts and innovators in the social media space at South by Southwest.

[00:19:56] And if you think about that, Where we were [00:20:00] 15 years ago with social media, we thought social media was going to bring us together more. We thought it was going to make a more unified world. We thought it was going to bridge these gaps in society and social media has done a lot of great things, but we also need to admit that social media has had as a big part of the divisions we face now, the, You know, the isolation we face now a lot of the problems. So, in terms of however much longer I'm working at South by Southwest, which I hope is a while longer, I'm hoping that we can figure out ways to steer, Particularly technology, because technology is a backbone to everything, into, into a more productive space something that, that really meets its potential of bringing people together, as opposed to tearing people apart.

[00:20:52] And again, I feel like we've got a long, long way to go. To, to achieve those goals [00:21:00] and particularly, and then the, you know, connect native B there, we have, we are on the, we're in the midst of this AI revolution, quote unquote, AI has all these possibilities. But I am, you know, going into this revolution a little less naive than when we went into the last one and understanding that.

[00:21:23] That AI has huge, huge potential for doing some great things in our society. But, but my personal belief is that without very careful management of our AI future, that, that we stand to lose even more of our humanity and, and what what makes life worth living if we don't. Be very careful here.

[00:21:47] So that is what guides so much of the, the ethos of South by Southwest moving forward.

[00:21:53] Mark: Huh? It's a lot in there. Yeah, I mean I agree with you [00:22:00] Remember I think even before social media I remember working I did a little stint working in San Francisco back in around 2002 for my agency at the time, Gray, and we were working with, Nokia and Oracle as clients. And, I remember it was actually a Cisco pitch and we were pitching and my creative director used this line in the pitch, which was, the further technology takes us, the closer it keeps us.

[00:22:26] And I often reflect back on that, think, well, yeah, in theory, but actually the further it divides us, the more it connects us. It comes down to implementation. It comes down to decision making. It comes down to governance, trust and safety, regulation, respect for privacy, all the things and the issues and the, the.

[00:22:46] the coarse discourse that we're experiencing and the damage to mental health, the teenagers and and what all the other litany of things that have been laid at the door of social media. It's the decision making of leaders [00:23:00] or the lack of regulation and responsibility of the people implementing it. And also in terms of the responsible use of parents regulating the use of their children.

[00:23:11] But given that we can look back at the mistakes that may be made Transcribed Whether it be by individuals or companies or governments, and regulators, you create this amazing forum for all these different creative people coming together across these diverse, groups, industries to have these important conversations. Given that things like, governance, privacy. Trust and safety regulation are all going to be probably more important this year coming. And I know that this year a lot was talked about and no one had any firm answers. Are you hopeful that [00:24:00] your event can play a role to actually encourage more responsible implementation of AI technologies, given its unique position?

[00:24:10] As a, as a technology, as an event,

[00:24:12] Hugh: I'm hopeful. Yes. I think that a lot of the voices we've sought to showcase at South by Southwest in recent years have been people pushing for more. Implementation for lack of better term. I also think that, one of the ironies of South by Southwest is that so much the event is focused on at this point.

[00:24:39] So much event is focused on new technology, new ways to connect via the newest social media app or newest hardware or whatnot. And yet. Every year we do this event, we're struck about halfway through that the most important technology is the oldest technology. It's just. [00:25:00] People coming together in a single place and meeting new people, making new connections discovering that joy.

[00:25:10] And, it's simple, but it's, it's not simple. Bringing people together, in a. place where they can learn, where they can network, where they can be free to express themselves and connect with others. That is again, the most basic, one of the most basic technologies and still one of, but still one of the most powerful technologies.

[00:25:35] I think that's what we, when you take away all the The bells and whistles, that's what we do at South by Southwest. And that's, that's proven to be a something that, that a lot of communities still get a lot of value out of, right.

[00:25:53] Mark: it's interesting you say that I can't remember if it was, it was one of the trick, it was one of the trend [00:26:00] talks. Sorry, excuse me. It was one of the trend talk, trend talks. I don't know if it was Amy Webbs or, one of the other women that did one. And she, one of them, they certainly talked about the oldest technology, general purpose technology was storytelling because it's helped us survive through.

[00:26:21] Multiple millennia generations. And it's so true that that's what you do. And, and I, you know, clearly you facilitate through the diversity of the, the events you've brought together and the experiences that are created both within the conference and outside of the conference. A surface area for serendipity where people exchange stories where they can be inspired by each other.

[00:26:49] And I think that is a unique, you're right, is a unique thing about South by compared to other big conferences, whether it be can the ad festival or [00:27:00] CES, there is this very vibrant. Serendipitous thing. Cause I've, I've noticed myself when I miss, I don't get into an event, you wait in the queue and you go, damn.

[00:27:12] then you find yourself in a line and a coffee for a coffee, talking to someone you would never otherwise met. And that's, that is the beauty of it,

[00:27:21] Hugh: well, uh, all of what you say here is very accurate. The only, the one thing I will correct you on Mark is that, that, you know, I am lucky enough to be at the, to, to get a lot of the, or some degree of the credit for when things go right at South by Southwest, but. The reality is it's, it is a community event.

[00:27:41] We believe very, I believe very strongly, my staff believes very strongly in the power of community. And often, or almost always, the community has better ideas on on what is compelling than we do. The more we can listen to the community, the better [00:28:00] South by Southwest has become. Certainly community management has many downsides and is sometimes difficult.

[00:28:06] But again South by Southwest would never have gotten as far as it's gotten now if it was, if it was the vision of any one person, as opposed to the one person channeling these very, very creative, robust smart, passionate engaged communities.

[00:28:27] Mark: so how do you then as a team stay on top of just the, the changing trends and technology, music and film to allow you to curate. Curate to you that makes it so remain so compelling and fresh

[00:28:44] Hugh: Right. Well, back at you on that. I mean, about 70 percent of the content

[00:28:51] Mark: from for the event, maybe a little higher comes through this panel picker process, which is essentially user generated content. [00:29:00] Anyone in the community can enter a speaking proposal. That yeah. Has been great for many different reasons.

[00:29:10] Hugh: It's been a great way to, to communicate with our audience, to create buzz about South by Southwest in the summer when there typically wasn't a whole lot of buzz, it's allowed us to allowed and empowered us to move into a lot of different verticals, that we probably wouldn't have moved in otherwise, but since anyone can enter a speaking proposal that we get all kinds of different industries involved, The challenge with the panel picker, one of the many challenges is we probably get way too many great ideas, during, more great ideas than we have room for at the event.

[00:29:45] So during August and September, October, we are having lots and lots of robust and passionate discussions within the staff about, Which proposal, you know, this proposal is really good. This proposal is even better. This [00:30:00] proposal is the best of the three. No, I like that one better, but we're talking a whole lot about this, this stuff and, and trying to make as educated decisions as possible on content, given those conversations.

[00:30:17] We don't always, I mean, we've made plenty of mistakes in terms of picking things that maybe we should have picked something else, but generally, I think this process of trying to engage, many different communities to, to pull in content and then, having a, a staff that is, Fearless in terms of the amount of hours they're going to spend, reflecting on all this content helps get us to an event that showcases some really brilliant thinkers, innovative thinkers, people you haven't heard of yet, but you will hear of their expertise shortly.

[00:30:59] We are lucky [00:31:00] enough to get a lot of big name speakers at South by Southwest at this point, but the. the heart of the event is still up and coming voices, people you haven't heard of yet. And that applies for the, to the conference portion of the event, I the panels and presentations, as well as the music portion where I've got tons of bands that you haven't heard of yet, but you probably will in a little while.

[00:31:23] And the film portion as well, where we showcasing a lot of up and coming emerging talent, people who haven't. Quite found their voice yet, but will soon. And people you'll probably see in the, the there may be doing a short at South by Southwest this year, but in five years, they've got a, a film that's on the big screen.

[00:31:42] And that's really neat to, to be a part of that progression of talent.

[00:31:49] Mark: Yeah, it's interesting. So that full time round the year. organization for it. There isn't really, [00:32:00] when you think about the, just the, when, as you're discussing and describing the process, it feels like there's, there's so many other things you could do with South by Southwest, from a media and a publishing standpoint, that could become much more than just an event, but you're just, this, this sounds like the sheer intensity, and I know that you've expanded to running events in Sydney and you've got London as well.

[00:32:27] How do you.

[00:32:28] Hugh: Well, I think you're, let me interrupt for a second, Mark. You're, you're absolutely right on point there that. That this has been a goal for X number of years here that we haven't fully achieved that, you know, how do we move from an event to a year round content portal? Yeah. essentially a media, more of a media property than an event.

[00:32:55] I think we've got some, we've had some good ideas on that in the past and we've had some wins and [00:33:00] successes. I think we've got some, New direction moving forward and look forward to, excited about how that will play out in the next couple of years. And again, this, this idea of, of, this, this incredible content that we're lucky enough to pull together in, in March, but how can we get that out to more people year round so they understand what, what's going on.

[00:33:25] What we do and understand and get inspired and get informed by these amazing speakers that we're lucky enough to have at South by Southwest. I

[00:33:38] Mark: looking forward to seeing where it goes then. As you said, the mission is to help creative people achieve their goals. I thought this year's event was fascinating. So not only just some amazing films, very cool bands, but, you know, some, really thought provoking, presentations and talks inspiring [00:34:00] panels, what were your key takeaways from this year's event that you look back and think, okay, these, these, this was fresh.

[00:34:08] This is something new.

[00:34:09] Hugh: thought it was a a strong event this year. I, I certainly the fascinating to see this, the, the momentum behind AI, play out the various different voices there. Some calling for less regulation, some calling for more regulation. That was, so that was, Fascinating. I also like that we did more stuff with, some of the, the issues that are most important to us.

[00:34:43] Certainly things like climate change sustainable energy, future of food things like that. We also, You know, we continue to have a, a strong program showcasing startups at this year's event and [00:35:00] startups have always been a very, very important piece of the South by Southwest puzzle startups in the big picture, meaning a band as a startup, a film as a startup a tech property can be a startup also, but you know as I mentioned before, I am always struck that, that, that people take away most from South by Southwest is just the, is the, the human connections they made there. And the, the, the opportunities that that leads to the friendships, the professional opportunities, The things that come out of this event, and it is really neat to be a small part of what is, what is this highlight event for a lot of people, you know, that my dopamine is someone comes up to me during the event or after the event or some other time of the year and says, you know, March in Austin is my favorite time of the year.

[00:35:59] [00:36:00] And there I get inspired by that. I I mean, The person saying that they're inspired inspires me. It's, it's again, need to be to, to, to have that kind of role of importance in, a lot of people's lives and journeys.

[00:36:16] Mark: Just a slight tangent on that. You came along to the Jennifer Hutchins Austin entertainment business I think it was there, you talked about the just the serendipitous, evolution of why it happen to be in that week in March. Could you just describe how that, that one week and a period emerged at the beginning?

[00:36:37] Hugh: Absolutely. So, This goes back really to the origin story of South by Southwest. It was patterned after an event in New York called the New Music Seminar, which was very, which had a nice little run in the mid eighties in New York. This was, an event that famously hatched the careers of someone like Madonna in [00:37:00] the mid eighties.

[00:37:00] There were lots of Austin bands that would go, perform at this event called and, and at one point the organizers of the new music seminar were going to come to Austin and create a new music seminar South or a new music seminar West. And that seemed like a great plan. And then this plan completely fell apart as The best plans sometimes do.

[00:37:21] So the local team, which was again, the team at the Austin Chronicle decided that, well, why don't we just do this on our own? How hard can it be to create an event? If you're going to do a music event, you need clubs involved. The Chronicle knew a lot of clubs because the clubs were, were typically advertising at the Chronicle.

[00:37:40] They went and talked to they had, Teams that went out and talked to these clubs and said, Hey, we've got this idea for this new music event. Can we use your club? And by lo and behold, club owners turn out to be a little more conservative than what you might've thought. And they said, you know, Why don't you come back in a few years when you have a real business model and you can [00:38:00] use my club kept knocking on doors, kept knocking on doors, kept knocking on doors, and eventually found roughly 20 clubs that all had the same response, which is I've got this one week out of the year, which is It's absolutely horrible for me.

[00:38:14] I can't do any worse than I'm doing already. I've tried everything to make this week work. Nothing works. Take my club that week. That week was spring break week. And because you know, you have 40, 000 students who are going to clubs that Go to the beach that week or go skiing or go to Mexico. And so the clubs were empty that week.

[00:38:34] And, and after a few years, that week became one of the most profitable weeks for the, for these club owners. And, you know, a few years later than that, they were doing as much business in that one week as they were doing for the rest of the year. So that is why. South by Southwest always happens in March.

[00:38:54] I love telling that story. Because for two reasons, one, [00:39:00] because it shows the, the importance of persistence. If you are any kind of entrepreneur or working on any kind of project, you're going to get a lot of nose. You have to keep knocking on doors, keep knocking on doors until you find enough people that will say yes.

[00:39:15] That's a basic life lesson that we can all take to heart too. I think it's, it's really reflective of, of so much of the entrepreneurial journey in that, so often as entrepreneurs and we're all entrepreneurs in one way or another, I think it's, it's taking something that no one thinks has any value.

[00:39:37] and turning it into something of value. So in this case, it was this spring break week where these club owners, you know, this, there's, there's nothing here. I can't do anything. And the, putting self by self less than that week, again, created a ton of value in that week to, you know, it's this week now, 35 years later, where, Brings in [00:40:00] 370 million to the Austin economy that week.

[00:40:02] So again, creating value out of something that everyone else thinks is trash. That's that's one thing that, that successful entrepreneurs generally have in common. And I will say that, you know, we didn't know what we were doing back way back in the 80s. folks who, you know, it was just, it was the only week we could get these clubs.

[00:40:24] But again, it turned out to be a really great decision to do South by Southwest in March and, and has really, you know had a large impact on the trajectory of Austin by having this, this This event celebrating creativity in the, in the early spring.

[00:40:40] Mark: Brilliant story. Obviously, whole event has evolved and as has Austin. about you? How have you changed and how has South By changed you?

[00:40:53] Hugh: Another great question there, Mark. It's, you know, hopefully I think it's, or I think it's made me [00:41:00] organized more organized, I was always. fairly organized, but this has taught me, the importance of being even more regimented, disciplined figuring out time management, things like that. I, I, Said earlier in the interview, and you've, you've talked about this, that I want to be a writer.

[00:41:21] I, I will write a novel at some point, I hope, but right now it's, it's learning to, to channel that writing, whatever small writing talent I have and do and do other, other things, whether that's responding to emails relatively quickly or, trying my hand at social media when needed. Again, trying to.

[00:41:43] To channel, what skills I have into, to, to what's, what's needed here. And I will also say that, you know, I'm still very much at the learning stage of what it takes to, lead this event. I'm [00:42:00] always, or have a long way to grow and long, long way to, to understand better strategies here. And.

[00:42:07] And, and look forward to, to, as I continue to grow as a leader, helping South by Southwest achieve even better things in the years to come.

[00:42:16] Mark: Given it is such a unique event, that brings in all this diverse, disparate, Aspects of creativity. How do you ensure, how do you create a cohesive experience for all those different attendees with different expectations

[00:42:32] Hugh: I mean, the upside of South by Southwest is there a thousand different things going on every day. The downside of South by Southwest is there a thousand different things going on every day and it's easy to get lost. I think that, that our approach has always been that.

[00:42:48] It's kind of a choose your own adventure. And that works for a lot of people, but I do think there's a lot of room we can grow and improve in terms of, handholding or guiding people who [00:43:00] maybe are intimidated by all the content that we have. So.

[00:43:04] My answer there to your question again, Mark, is that I don't know that we've we've done as much as we can and should do in terms of stitching the experiences together. The people who get it and who understand it. Typically can make a lot out of the experience, but I think there's there's some people that that probably need more handholding.

[00:43:23] And I hope that we can improve in the years to come due to so that they can get as much out of the event as the others who are a little more aggressive in how they pursue it.

[00:43:34] Mark: what are the biggest challenges you faced?

[00:43:36] Hugh: I think pivoting off that last answer, it has been absolute thrill, wonderful, great to, to, to grow a lot, in the last 20 years. And, and partly because there were years we didn't grow at all. And then when you suddenly grow, it's like, wow, this is amazing. But, but the challenge that that presents is, [00:44:00] breaking down a, a Big event into a smaller event that is more digestible for more people so, you know the fact that it's a big event is why i'm on your podcast now and you think I know something about running events, but but the the challenge is to to make it More approachable, more manageable, make it easier for people to make connections within this, this ever, bigger landscape.

[00:44:26] Mark: I mean, you've alluded to the fact that you have ambitions and plans of where you're going to take it over the coming years. And while you have international editions of it, given that you have 70 percent of it being a panel picker, maybe you don't have to answer this, but are there any plans to take it in the same direction of TED have a South by Southwest TEDx version where the community manage their own events?

[00:44:52] Hugh: I don't think that, I mean, I, one, we are huge fans of, of what Ted does, And what they have done. And [00:45:00] there's a lot of overlap in terms of, people who speak at South by Southwest and people who speak at TED. So have huge, huge respect for what they've done and particularly how they've created a media brand out of TED, which I don't think we've, you know, hit our mark there yet.

[00:45:15] That said, I don't think that we have plans in the future to, you know, do quite the TEDx approach that they, that, that they embarked on where they have many versions or, or big versions of TED in a lot of different places. We have expanded in recent years. We, well, last year we launched an event in Sydney, Australia.

[00:45:38] Have our first ever South by Southwest London in June, 2025. So excited about those additions. I think we've got enough on our plate with, with those those two additions at present. So I don't think will embrace that, that kind of TEDx model. Now that doesn't mean that we can't do maybe [00:46:00] very small, very contained pop up events and some other cities.

[00:46:05] We've done some of that in the past. And I think we'll, we'll probably lean into that a little more in the, in the go forward.

[00:46:11] Mark: Like every other business organization event, you had to pivot and had to evolve with the challenges of COVID. What lessons did you take away from that experience? And were there any point, was there any point where you were actually really worried about the long term survival of the event?

[00:46:30] Hugh: Yeah, absolutely. The, I mean, COVID. As with so many other businesses in the U. S. and around the world, had a huge, huge impact on South by Southwest. We are still not back to the pre COVID levels in terms of overall attendance, and that, you know, it's a long road back. We hope we'll get there in 2025, but we're not there yet.

[00:46:51] yet. As a result of missing the year of COVID, we took on a big investor and that helped us get through [00:47:00] the difficult times of, of less revenue during COVID. But, but learning to, work with an outside investor is, as you know, taking some skill sets that we didn't, we didn't have before. The biggest of big pictures here, I think that, you know, COVID proved what we've been saying all along here and what we've talked a lot about in this podcast is that people really do want face to face Bye.

[00:47:30] In person human to human interaction. Pre COVID, if I was speaking at an event, I'd talk about, you know, what happens when we, we create a VR system. That's so great that you can, you can put on your headset and Northern California and can be instantly transported to Austin, Texas, and don't have to worry about.

[00:47:53] Traffic or parking or airport. Well, that kills South by Southwest. And it was a straw man argument [00:48:00] because that technology's not anywhere close yet. Maybe it will be in 10 years. I mean, again, the most important technology is, being face to face in environments. And, and again, COVID very much proved that, that, that people, we, we lived on zoom for a while, but people crave being, being together.

[00:48:23] And, and, they also create crave this, this thing that we, the, the, this asset that we trade in massively at South by Southwest, which is human creativity and human inspiration. And again COVID. In that sense, very much reaffirmed what I think we kind of knew going into the the pandemic, but certainly knew in much greater extent to a much greater extent after the pandemic.

[00:48:49] Mark: You, I think you just answered the other question I had, which was really, what's your vision of future festivals and large scale events in an increasingly AI? world. I think [00:49:00] I agree with you and totally concur that we, I think if I walked away from anything from this year's, it was a sense of, we need to somehow reimagine what our creativity is as humans in a world of AI where AI will increasingly embrace a lot of our creativity or creative tasks.

[00:49:24] So there's a, I think there's a re imagination. And I think what better place for that reimagined, reimagination to occur and to be facilitated and sparked than a place like South by Southwest. 

[00:49:37] Hugh: Well, back at you. I think that, paradoxically, the more we push into AI algorithms machines that can quote think autonomous, equipment of all different sorts, the the more important and valuable authentic [00:50:00] human, connections become. And hopefully that is what we specialize in and what we do well at South by Southwest is these authentic human connections showcase that.

[00:50:12] The power of human creativity showcase the, the many possibilities of the human creativity, you know, think the algorithms will, improve on this eventually or soon. You know, what we do as humans better than computers at this point is connect disperse elements and realize that the commonality there.

[00:50:36] And, You know, I, I think that's one of the things that, that we do very well at South by Southwest is you go see a, film and then you go see a, a band and then you go see a, a, a keynote speaker all in the space of three hours and somehow in your mind, you, you, you bring together the connections there, and come to some greater [00:51:00] understanding of our human condition or of our world by doing so.

[00:51:04] Mark: thinking just on what you're saying there, what's amazing around so many of the, panels and the keynotes is hearing people project and talk about. The future and what they expect of what they predict. You know, you have quite a lot of futures. One of my good friends, Dr Morgan Gay, did a session on food last year and this year, and I talked about Amy Webb, all all these people that talk about the future.

[00:51:35] what's amazing. And I don't think A. I. is going to be in a position anytime soon to create content that would be so compelling that would, that would excite the imagination of attendees to hear about where we can take the future. I think it's what people hear at these events that send them off to then go away and think and come up with new ideas.

[00:51:59] I think it's [00:52:00] a, it's almost like a. Petri dish for innovation.

[00:52:03] Hugh: Yeah. And back at you on something you said earlier, which I think is incredibly important is that so many of the speakers who are successful at events like South by Southwest or Ted or, or any, a number of other great events are storytellers and that the, that, the power of storytelling to, weave in information, inspiration New ideas, humor, that is something so uniquely human, um, and is storytelling incredibly powerful now. I think it will go, will become even more powerful in the, the, the future as we move forward. And, and again, the, the various, AI models can do a lot of things very well and will continue to do things well, but I don't [00:53:00] think that, human storytelling is something that's soon going to be replicated by any of those technologies.

[00:53:05] Mark: How do you balance commercial interests with maintaining the creative and innovative spirit, of that is just so, unique to South by.

[00:53:16] Hugh: Well, I, I'm smiling because, sometimes I think we do that well. Sometimes we, Need a mulligan didn't quite do it. Well we are a for profit business. So commercial interests are important to us. But we do try to be very, very thoughtful and strategic in terms of balancing out, anything that's too commercial with, with things that, that really don't have a commercial focus.

[00:53:48] That said, we also realized that, what is too commercial for one person is maybe not commercial enough for another. So, as always trying to strike a balance [00:54:00] there, of the, the brands versus the, the, I mean, the name brands versus the independent brands, the individuals versus companies, that type of thing.

[00:54:11] And. Sometimes we, we get the balance better than other times. But generally it works for that. That balance striking approach works for our community.

[00:54:23] Mark: I know it's, it's hard because I've. had so many events over the years where we've seen, and you know, coming from a brand advertising background be part of that move to take brands into spaces maybe didn't occupy before. And it's very hard because you might attend, I'm not just saying at South By, it can be at anyone, whether it be Cannes or CES.

[00:54:45] a, you read a review of what do you think the event's going to be? And then you find it's just a platform for a brand to talk about itself. 

[00:54:51] Hugh: Right. 

[00:54:51] Mark: must be challenging because a lot of brands also want to invest a lot of money to have presence and to have their name and get their message out there.[00:55:00] 

[00:55:00] But I think you've done a very good job of maintaining that balance,

[00:55:04] Hugh: Well, thank you for the nice words there. I think that, you know, with With any event or, or any company, almost any event or almost any company that, that is successful. There needs to be a degree of authenticity and I, and that's certainly what we are trying to always achieve at South by Southwest.

[00:55:25] Always. Showcases, you know authenticity here and when it, when it doesn't work as well as we'd like it to, it's when the brand, you know, was a little bit out of place or pushing too hard on the, the, you know, pushing what they do versus pushing what the ecosystem does. So it's a, it's always a challenge, but I think that, that, we are pretty good at.

[00:55:51] Either getting it right or pivoting to, to to fix it if, if the balance is off. 

[00:55:59] Mark: [00:56:00] you you look at the upcoming year, you get the panel picker, and you obviously get what people suggest, and what people vote for, do you have expectations or thoughts of like, well, we really hope someone's going to be, you know, Positioning or pitching an idea in this area, however things you feel, you don't, or you have expectations for things, or a sense of where you think the event's going to go in the forthcoming year.

[00:56:28] Hugh: That's a great question also there, Mark. I mean, I think we've pivoted or I know we've pivoted a little bit on that in our approach. The analogy I sometimes use is, is we're moving a little bit away from the Christmas morning, approach on panel picker where you, you know, walk downstairs and see what's under the Christmas tree for you and more to a, suggesting the kinds of content we want, the kinds of topics we want.

[00:56:58] So being a little more [00:57:00] aggressive there, being a little more giving people a roadmap, all said, you know, so many of the, the best things that we get in the panel picker or via, via various, via other ways are just things that came in somewhat randomly that we weren't expecting that turned out to be a wonderful addition to the event.

[00:57:21] So again, that back to what I said earlier, there's always that need to, to kind of to achieve a little bit of balance between what is intentional and what is, what, what just kind of magically falls your way.

[00:57:36] Mark: When you think about the evolution of the event, it started with music, then went to film, multimedia, interactive, and what it is now, do you ever wonder? or ever discuss internally, is there track coming, something we haven't thought of yet, that sits outside of those three other [00:58:00] distinct elements.

[00:58:01] Hugh: Yeah. We have, we've talked a lot about, is there another big pillar at this point and the, the, the, divisions, quote unquote, that we, that we. Put in 20 years ago, are they still relevant? There are a lot of great opinions on, on all sides of those questions. Certainly, the, the tech stuff we do, I mean, everything is a tech company at this point, so, or everything has a tech backbone at this point. So that the distinctions between what is tech and what is music, what is tech and what is film are, are.

[00:58:40] Not quite as, as, as pronounced as they were 10 or 15 years ago. I hope we're always evolving and pivoting. You know, the other thing that you've probably heard me say before is that the, the pivots and the transitions we [00:59:00] make almost always. Follow the pivots and transitions in Austin, Texas.

[00:59:06] And when people ask me, what, what do you think South by Southwest will look like in 2030, where are you guys going? And my response is, you know, I'm, I'm not quite sure what it'll look like in 2030, but I bet it will look a lot like Austin, Texas, if Austin emerges is the capital of. The quantum computing revolution, then we'll be doing a lot more quantum stuff here.

[00:59:30] If it, if Austin emerges as the, you know, the, where vinyl records are having their biggest renaissance, then we'll do a lot more vinyl stuff with rock vinyl records here. You know, mirroring the creativity of Austin at South by Southwest has always been a formula for creating a really, really compelling event.

[00:59:55] Mark: How do you balance your personal interests with clearly [01:00:00] what is a very demanding role? I mean, I've heard you talk about your love of reading. maintaining an exercise regime, getting good sleep. We all have to, Um, you do in Austin and the maybe boards that you advise on.

[01:00:15] Hugh: winter, the winter months, the, the fall and winter months are, you know, they're, they're typically longer hours the more disciplined I can be then, in terms of going to sleep relatively early, getting up early in the morning, setting that these are the two hours I'm gonna look at the email, these are the two hours I'm going to, you know, read headlines.

[01:00:38] The better we can be. I. We talked about my fledgling career as a basketball player. Previously in the podcast, I don't really do any competitive sports anymore, but, but South by Southwest is my outlet for competition. I have the, the, the, the bar being that, you know, I know what it [01:01:00] was like. The previous year, how can we make it better this year?

[01:01:03] So it's a kind of internal competition that way. And, and that fuels a lot of my drive. I think as well, we've never in my mind quite gotten it right. And, and so it always I'm driven by, gosh, we, we fixed that one thing, but then something else was screwed up. Let's do it, you know, got to go back and fix that one thing.

[01:01:27] And if, if we ever did an event where I feel like. everything we did worked exactly like how we planned it would work. I think I would be very comfortable with moving on to some other career at that point, but we have not come anywhere close to that yet. So it is always a work in progress. It is always something that after we've done South by Southwest, we We analyze what went right, what went wrong.

[01:01:52] We tear it all apart and we start all over again. And that has always been a, a formula for success. [01:02:00] I, I think that again, there's, there is a possible world where we would do a, a, an event that, that is fairly perfect and I could mic drop, but I haven't, haven't gotten there yet.

[01:02:10] Mark: You must have highlights and personal memories either from this year or just over the years of things you go, yeah, that they were, that was, that was special.

[01:02:19] Hugh: Absolutely. There's so many memories, of. Things that were neat. Things that I never would have expected. One of my, certainly one of my favorite memories, is I think 2012 or 2014, maybe 2012 was when, we had Springsteen as a keynote speaker. I'm a huge Bruce Springsteen fan. Been to like, you know, way too many Bruce shows over the years.

[01:02:47] And what was, Remarkable about that is that I did not go to his keynote speech. I was worried that, you know, I have this one [01:03:00] vision of Bruce Springsteen performing in front of a large crowd and being able to wow that crowd, and I did not want to go see him in another, environment where he might not be as good and ruin my, my.

[01:03:13] Exalted opinion of Bruce lo and behold, I was 1000 percent wrong on that. He was, it was a fantastic keynote in many ways. It was a precursor to the show we did on Broadway. I, I know this cause I've now gone back and watched the video, that's that keynote many, many times and been impressed by it. But.

[01:03:39] Again, that was one of my most favorite memories of, of, South by Southwest and, and got a chance to shake his hand backstage. And so that was neat. Lots of other great memories. Also great people. I've, I've met through the event, relationships that I've, [01:04:00] Developed by speakers or, or other people who've been involved.

[01:04:05] So, it is being involved with South by Southwest as, as, you know, again, re re reaffirmed how important creativity is, how important it is to. To surround yourself with people who inspire you And we all need inspiration even more so in this tangled world. We live in in 2024 But but again i've i've been lucky enough to have a front row seat to a lot of this And it's been an amazing amazing journey

[01:04:35] Mark: That's fascinating. Yeah, you would do wonder if maybe if that experience at South by the Bruce had was the thing that triggered his imagination to create the Broadway show.

[01:04:48] Hugh: I tend to think he must've had that long before South by Southwest, but, but again, back to where we were saying about the power of storytelling and [01:05:00] how wrong I was to think that this person could only tell stories in one venue with a guitar in front of. You know, in front of the street band and 15, 000 fans.

[01:05:10] I mean, he is, he was fantastic at doing this on stage in a, in this keynote environment and, you know, one more thing to, that, that, Has inspired me to try to, to try to do better and, and the various, various things that I'm involved with,

[01:05:29] Mark: One question I have to ask is basketball, but Boston Red Sox,

[01:05:35] you're from Austin,

[01:05:37] Hugh: my my grandparents on my mom's side, retired to Cape Cod. So I used to go up there every summer and, you know, I, I would watch Red Sox games when I was a, Kid and that kind of infected me for the rest of So it was always a, a has always been a strong passion of mine. The Red Sox, maybe a little [01:06:00] less so in recent years, either as I've gotten more mature or the team won a few championships and did not become quite the, you know, lovable losers that they were for many, many years.

[01:06:12] But they have been They've been a lifelong passion, given me a lot of joy and given me a lot of sorrow over the years. How's that?

[01:06:18] Mark: Perfect. Can we move on to some quickfire personal questions? What principles do you live by?

[01:06:25] Hugh: Great question there. I think do good, feel good, you know try to try to make the world a better place. And that makes you feel better.

[01:06:36] Mark: And suppose that also impacts your leadership style.

[01:06:42] Hugh: It does impact my leadership style. I'm still learning a lot as a leader. But, always try to set a positive example, understanding that I've failed many times on that can get better, can get a lot better there.

[01:06:57] Mark: Who or what inspires you [01:07:00] to keep up getting up every day, doing what you're doing every year and just to keep changing the world for the better?

[01:07:06] Hugh: I think that what inspires me is, is knowing that we just have so much more. to do, you know, that we've, we've, we've, we, we being South by Southwest have, done a lot of really neat things, but we've barely scratched the surface of what we can and should do. And particularly when we look at.

[01:07:28] The many challenges we have in 2024 and can't we be doing more to to impact the world in a positive way so that is what inspires me to to keep working keep working hard on this thing. Keep trying to make it get better

[01:07:44] Mark: as you're saying that made me think of, I used to one of my clients was Ikea. And I don't know if you've ever, read the testament of a furniture dealer. By the founder. Oh, you'd love it. It's brilliant. For [01:08:00] someone that loves writing, this is one of the most brilliantly written manifestos ever created.

[01:08:05] It's about 27 pages long, but short and sweet. And written by Ingvar, the founder of IKEA. And one of his great, just full of great aphorisms. One of the ones he said was most things remain to be done. And as you were saying that just scratching the surface. 

[01:08:22] Hugh: Nice 

[01:08:22] Mark: So, yeah, yeah. So if you're, if you're looking for some, fourth of July inspiration reading, download the PDF for a testament of a furniture dealer.

[01:08:33] It's really good.

[01:08:33] Hugh: writing it down now writing it down now.

[01:08:36] Mark: Yeah, I think it's, I mean it's great for, it's a philosophy for life, I think. We're all human, and have to deal with the uncertainty, we all, I think, have moments of self doubt and of fears, how do you deal with it, given the uncertainty of what you encounter year in, year out?

[01:08:55] Hugh: In my best days, which sometimes [01:09:00] are sometimes happen a lot. Sometimes I try to meditate every day. I found that that is increased my confidence a lot helped me remain Balanced helped lower stress levels certainly the irony of Of, of meditation is that when things start getting really busy and for South by Southwest, it's often the first thing I cut out of my schedule.

[01:09:25] I'm like why am I cutting out? What would help me most, but it just happens. But, certainly the, that practice of meditation has, has helped me through a lot of the challenges of South by Southwest. Help me try to mitigate. When I'm angry at someone or angry at myself for dumb reasons, help balance out all the weird things that are going through my mind.

[01:09:56] So, so that has been a a big [01:10:00] positive addition to my life. 

[01:10:01] 

[01:10:02] Mark: What book would you recommend someone read?

[01:10:04] Hugh: We Are taping this one Hurricane Beryl is you know, devastating the Caribbean, so I'm thinking of what I read two years ago, which I've recommended and given to a lot of people, which is Ministry for the Future, the Kim Sam Lee. Kim Stanley Robinson book. Um, 

[01:10:26] Mark: must read. 

[01:10:28] Hugh: depressing, but also in a sense optimistic.

[01:10:33] And the, just the, the grand vision of, of, He undertakes, it was a pretty amazing book.

[01:10:43] Mark: No, I'd go along with that. I'll put that in the show notes. Any life hack you've discovered along the way that you think some people would benefit from being aware of 

[01:10:51] Hugh: life hack.

[01:10:53] I have, another book that I, that I recommend and have bought many, [01:11:00] many times for friends is the Cal Newport book, world without email. And the life hack that I read that, that I absorbed there was to, not send emails at all at three o'clock in the morning to time emails, to go out at eight o'clock, not do emails on the weekend. If I do emails on the weekend, I time them to go out at o'clock on Monday or something. The context here being that, that. emails you send out, the more you get back.

[01:11:31] And maybe the other person doesn't want to be reading emails on a weekend or at 10 30 at night. And I think that's helped balance me too, is to, to, I mean, I, I know that for a while, or there was a period of my life where I was like, yeah, I'm going to email someone at four 30 in the morning, they're going to see how dedicated I am.

[01:11:49] And now I'm like, that was a really dumb thing. I don't need to email people at four 30 in the morning. I can email them at 10 in the morning and it works just fine. So that is [01:12:00] a relative life hack of trying to make the technology that you're using a little more humane for more people.

[01:12:09] Mark: great answer, you must have seen or encountered many great shows, films, movies, documentaries from the film festival track. Is anything you think in recent memory that's important for people to add to their list?

[01:12:25] Hugh: The correction on that question, Mark, is I have not seen, I think I've seen one movie total in my life.

[01:12:32] 30 years or Southwest. So, yeah, it's, it, I'm too restless during the event to be sitting in an auditorium Watching. 

[01:12:42] Mark: Well, anything that you've, you've seen, you think, Hey, this is an important Docker show

[01:12:47] Hugh: yeah, you know, the, doc that I watched about a month ago, which I didn't Think a whole lot of it at the time, but have, have certainly thought of it more was the [01:13:00] thing on Netflix about the making of we are the world. And, it was about balancing all the egos that, that that. song and tale.

[01:13:12] And that was, so that I've thought a lot about that in terms of balancing the egos of people on my staff, balancing the egos of people that we're working with. And, and so that has been, that is something that, that has had a large influence 

[01:13:29] Mark: Okay, I'll add that and I'll watch it myself. I did see that and passed it by, but I'll go back to it. Aside from being driven by the power of serendipity and doing this podcast, I believe in the importance of reciprocity and of having interviewed so many interesting people, part of the, mission going forward is to create what I call random collisions, where I introduce people together and see what happens.

[01:13:54] So are you open for me to facilitate or engineer some random collisions?

[01:13:58] Hugh: [01:14:00] Absolutely.

[01:14:00] Mark: Cool.

[01:14:01] Hugh: random collisions make the world go round. And, and, again, have a sense of pride that, that, that often happens at South by Southwest, but it happens at so many events. So I am, excited to see what you can engineer for me there, Mark.

[01:14:18] Mark: Okay. All right. And in the spirit of reciprocity and serendipity, I started this because I, with three people I knew, and have relied on guests like Jennifer Hutchins and people to say, Hey, you should interview this person like you. And I Who do I interview next?

[01:14:35] Hugh: And are you looking for someone in any specific Region? 

[01:14:40] Mark: you know, I have to trust in the serendipity of Your 

[01:14:43] recommendation. 

[01:14:44] Hugh: well, I will say that, a person who's spoken at South by Southwest, I think each of the last two years, who's pretty fascinating is this guy, Ben Lamb, who is doing the, project where they're they've got DNA from the woolly mammoth [01:15:00] and trying to 

[01:15:01] Rehatched the woolly mammoth. This is a company that wanted his startup now is called colossal works with George church on this from, I think Harvard, bio engineering, it.

[01:15:15] It's fascinating. It's also, you know, it's right on the cusp of is technology, is this really what we're doing with technology? Is this the right thing to do? So it brings up a lot of moral and ethical questions. But nonetheless a fascinating experience. So it would be one that I would strongly recommend.

[01:15:35] Mark: Okay, well, when this goes live, what I usually do is ask you to make an intro by email. So, I'll come back to you on that.

[01:15:43] Hugh: Wonderful. happy to.

[01:15:45] Mark: Excellent. Well, I have to just thank you Hugh for your time, your thoughtful answers, the amazing creative journey you've been on and the creative opportunities that you're facilitating for all these amazing people around the [01:16:00] world that attend every year at South by, including myself.

[01:16:03] And I really look forward to see where you take it.

[01:16:05] Hugh: Well, thank you so much for, having me as a guest on the show market. It means a lot and great conversation and really appreciate the nice words. And, and let me just reiterate that, that, I play a very small role in this. I mean, what I. Do is, is have the pleasure of pulling together some incredibly creative communities and many times just sitting back and watching the magic that occurs when, when we bring these communities together.

[01:16:36] Mark: Well enjoy the 4th of July and then get ready for those panel pickers coming up.

[01:16:41] Hugh: Absolutely. Absolutely.

[01:16:42] Mark: Yeah. 

[01:16:43] Okay, that's all for now, folks. Now here's my ask of you. Please follow this podcast on Apple or Spotify or whatever player you use. Also, please subscribe to our new random Collisions newsletter. We really are working to build a global community of action takers, action engines of people that really [01:17:00] care about the problems that need solving.

[01:17:02] Thank you very much. We'll see you next time.