Edward Molkenboer === [00:00:00] [00:00:00] Mark: I wrote down, I want to help people And then I thought, Hmm, if I want to help people, make the world a better place, will people help me? And then I thought, let's test it. and go out for a week on the streets with a, without money, without everything. [00:00:18] Edward: So I placed myself on the streets, homeless for a week without money. And I think that was the. journey, trip I ever made in my life. [00:00:30] ​ [00:00:30] [00:01:00] [00:01:02] Edward: Edward, welcome to the Impossible Network. [00:01:06] Thank you. [00:01:08] Mark: It's great to be chatting to you here from Austin and you are where? Of [00:01:13] Edward: Well, I'm in Harlem and it's nearby Amsterdam in the Netherlands. [00:01:19] Mark: yeah. Delightful Netherlands. Well, let's jump, let's let's jump in. We've established through the introduction that you've had a, an interesting career a life journey working in advertising, having your own agency from age 19. But you're on a very different journey now. Before we get into that journey. [00:01:39] and what you're working to achieve. Perhaps we could start with a big question as to who you are as a human being. [00:01:47] Edward: Well, first of all, I'm a very, very proud father of two sons. I have a son of 12 and a son who is almost [00:02:00] 10 months old and well, I think they're the most important thing in my life at the moment. So this is who I am as a, as a father. I feel the love talking about them. [00:02:13] as a person, I am energetic, got a lot of ideas, always, I'm very optimistic. My friends always say you're optimistic until you die. [00:02:26] So, well, that's for sure. [00:02:28] Mark: We need, we need more optimism [00:02:29] in the world. [00:02:30] Edward: I always have big dreams, that's who I am, but I also have doubts, of course, I'm, I'm also human. So I also have doubts about the ideas I have, are they good enough? And I, I'm also searching for recognition sometimes by sharing my ideas and well, I think that sums it up. [00:02:56] Mark: I suppose very natural human traits. [00:03:00] As uh, a father, yeah, we all, we all struggle with our doubts at moments in time. [00:03:05] Edward: Yeah. [00:03:05] Mark: but that, in terms of who you are you don't really touch on your values and your principles that you live by. [00:03:14] Edward: Well, the values for me are, don't judge a book by its cover. Maybe that's the best way to pronounce it. That's a value for me. No one is better or worse. Everyone has a story. If they do things, it's because of maybe fears. They have, or things they have made, who have made them. So, um, and because of that, I also think, my values are also share that we share things with each other and sharing can be everything. [00:03:57] Sharing can be knowledge or work or [00:04:00] help each other. And these are my big values in life. [00:04:04] Mark: That does lead to the next question, which is who or what made you the person you are and develop those values that led you to be the human you are today. [00:04:15] Edward: comes to this values or else maybe you teach me about myself. [00:04:26] Mark: I mean, we all talk about the simplicity of the binary nature of the binary. [00:04:30] Question of nature, nurture parents, or just, is it in your DNA the impact of your [00:04:38] Edward: Well, I'll just tell you. Yeah. I'll just tell you when I was a baby and I think I was around two years old, I got very sick and my parents didn't know what it was. So I went to the hospital a lot until I was, I think, eight years old. And I remember going to the hospital a [00:05:00] lot. And those were periods of. Four till six weeks. So that's a lot as a kid. And it turns out I had gluten. Do you know the gluten in the, in the food? [00:05:13] Mark: Oh yeah, yeah. [00:05:15] Edward: Gluten intolerance. [00:05:18] And now everyone is, it's very hip in the Netherlands when you eat gluten free. But in that time it wasn't known so well. And because of going to the hospital so much, I got a lot of attention from my class because they all sent me cards. [00:05:36] I was away. And after that, I remember I played soccer very well. And I played soccer very well at the age of 12. And I scored 99 goals in one season. So that's a lot. [00:05:53] Mark: Hang on a second. Hang on. Hold on a minute. A budding Johan Cruyff. [00:05:57] Edward: Yes. [00:05:59] I [00:06:00] wish. Yeah. And that's because I could, I could run very fast. So when I think of my childhood. I was the guy who could run very fast, and when you play on school, they never could catch me. [00:06:13] So I was the kind of, well, I wouldn't say popular guy, but And I always helped also the children who were bullied. Because I, I, I didn't think that was nice. And that's also kind of attention I attracted and then with playing the soccer at 12 years old in the newspaper papers, they played me every week when I made so much goals. [00:06:39] So after that, I went to school, but they placed me on a school, my parents, and that was much too low for me to education. So I build it up, to bachelor eventually. And I started my advertising agency when I was 18. So I was an entrepreneur, [00:07:00] very young. I also organized events when I was. 14 years old because I wanted to buy fireworks at the end of the year. [00:07:10] And I thought, Hmm, how can I make money? Hmm. Maybe I have to organize an event. I make money and I can buy fireworks from the money. So as a child, I got a lot of attention and it started when I was a baby. So what does this tell you about my values? [00:07:32] Mark: or just who you are. So, you know, you said that you don't judge people. Yeah. You believe in sharing. You're a dreamer. I can see the connection between judgment and protecting kids that are being bullied and probably seeing, having empathy for others. [00:07:50] Edward: Yes, that was very much also from my mother's side. My mother always helps people and also my father did, of course, but my [00:08:00] mother still is always helping people. And she got a recognition from the king from on King's Day. They give recognitions to People who do good things in society. it's. it's maybe it's in my DNA. Yeah. Yeah. My sweet mother. Yeah. I love her so much. Yeah. [00:08:19] Mark: okay, I can understand that you, you had a combination of a, let's just call it the help gene, and a non preneurial spirit, and presumably from what you're saying, it sounds like you excelled in your education. [00:08:32] That sense of, self belief, to be able to set up your own agency at age 19, I mean I worked in advertising, the idea of setting up my own agency. I didn't come to me until I was well into my forties. So, [00:08:46] Edward: Yeah. [00:08:47] Mark: what gave you that inner belief and that worldview that you could actually go out there on your own and make it? [00:08:54] Edward: I think it's also because of my parents because they believed in [00:09:00] me. And they always said, it doesn't matter what you want to be or achieve in life. They put no pressure at all, no pressure in school, no pressure in work. They always believed in me and I had a very nice and warm childhood. And, nothing could go wrong in my opinion. [00:09:21] So I think the belief of your parents that. Whatever you do, it's okay. It makes you strong during life. And I always thought, well, I am young and I can make mistakes. And I still make a lot of mistakes. And I don't mind. I don't feel ashamed when I make mistakes. I learn by making mistakes. yeah, back to my parents. Yeah. [00:09:46] Mark: Interesting. I've interviewed quite a lot of people over the last few years who've been, probably fair to say they've come from immigrant families. And they, in a way, they, they, Describe as they describe their [00:10:00] childhoods in a very different way of high expectations of knowing they had to overachieve, knowing they had to deliver. [00:10:07] And you often think that that's what leads people to the success and the heights and to excel. Yet you're saying there was no pressure. There was just a sense of belief. I just want, it's interesting that there does, because I, you know, I think I believe that probably a lot of people that maybe listen to these interviews are parents and maybe. [00:10:25] We all question our parental style and approach. And yet, you're saying that the important thing is just the belief in the kid and giving them a sense of inner confidence. [00:10:36] Edward: I agree to that. Yeah. [00:10:38] Mark: Yeah. Interesting. So that, with that sort of journey you went on at age 19, could you just give us a bit of an overview as to what, why you went on that, into that world of advertising and what led you down that path? Before your life [00:10:53] Edward: Yes. Pivot. Well, advertising, 19 years old, believing I [00:11:00] could change the world. Of course. I still believe that I know the first 10 years of my advertising agency, I did everything from TV commercials until the logos. And then after a while I thought, ah, I have to be very good. In a specific thing. So I just changed my advertising agency from doing everything to specific only direct mail. [00:11:28] And I exhalated in the direct mail. And it just went to customers there. Well, I'm a specialist because I made myself a specialist. And do you believe me? Yes, I believe you. Well, then I will work for you and I will do great campaigns. And eventually it worked, but I did it for 19 years. And after 19 years, And my company grew I had employees and I didn't [00:12:00] do any more what I liked because I am also a creative person, but now I was like a manager and at the time also my father got sick and when We were at the doctor's in the hospital and uh, I still remember, of course, we were sitting in the room and the doctor said, I'm sorry, we have some bad news. You have cancer. And the first thing my father said. was shit, then I can't be a grandfather and uh, well, it still touches me because I have a baby now of 10 months and um, [00:12:42] Mark: Okay, so you haven't had kids at this point. [00:12:44] Edward: no. And I didn't know that was his wish. But you can imagine when your father passed away, I had a very good relationship with him. Within seven weeks, we had to bury him. Well, then it changed something in my [00:13:00] career because then I thought, Is this what I want to do my whole life? Making campaigns. [00:13:07] And if I die early, is this what I want to look back to? And for me it was no, I have to do something. I have to do something else. Something else. [00:13:20] Mark: Wow. So that, time of, the passing of someone close to you, whether it be a parent or a loved one. Certainly is a time for inner reflection. [00:13:31] and brings moments of existential reality to most people's lives. But I think the reality is most people just get on and carry on on the same track they've been. [00:13:41] But you did pivot. In a, in a pretty radical way, so, and it, and I suppose that does lead to the third big question, which is, you know, what are you working to achieve before you do shuffle off this mortal coil yourself? And perhaps you could expand on that, that moment of reality and that [00:14:00] awakening. [00:14:00] Edward: it's nice to say awakening because in that period, I started to read the book from Eckhart Tolle, The Now, And, I never lived in the now. I always lived in my dreams. What if, or in my fears, I also lived in my fears back at the day. And then I thought, Hmm. Suppose I can change my life right now. [00:14:24] And that was after my father passed away. And I went into the woods and I sit down on, a hill. Looked over the woods and I had a pen and paper. And I thought, Hmm, what if I can change my life tomorrow? How would my life be? And I just started writing. And I also wrote. [00:14:46] How is my life at this moment? And then I compared it. How is my life at this moment? Comparing, how do I want my life to be? Well, and it was a kind of shock. Because [00:15:00] what I have written down was not my advertising agency. I have written down was I want to do good for others. But I don't know how and I start sharing that with with friends and with my family. [00:15:16] I want to do good for others. And on the birthday of my mother I also shared it in the family. And my aunt said, well, why don't you go and pour coffee with the elderly? And I said, Hmm, okay, pouring coffee with the elderly. Why not? My father passed away. My son didn't have a grandfather. I thought there are a lot of grandfathers there. [00:15:45] there was kind of switch and I went pouring coffee with the elderly people. So [00:15:51] Mark: period between when your father [00:15:53] Edward: yes. [00:15:53] Mark: you were going through this, this, this [00:15:55] Edward: Soul searching. [00:15:57] Mark: Yeah. [00:15:57] Edward: Yes, it took me [00:16:00] quite a long of time, searching, what to [00:16:03] Mark: Wow. [00:16:03] Edward: life. Yeah, [00:16:04] Mark: did you marry, during this period? Yeah, [00:16:09] Edward: the time, of course. [00:16:10] Mark: what did she say? Because she probably thought, Hey, I met this guy with his ad agency. I can see we've got to have this interesting life. And then you're going on this in our soul searching existential sort of journey. [00:16:20] Edward: Well. In that period of time, also that relation stopped. [00:16:25] So it was a new period for me. It was a new period for me because, I was single at the moment. And then I thought, okay, so I changed it all my life. I wrote down how, what do I want to have my life? So there was no girlfriend telling me, what are you doing? I just, just did it. And well, by pouring coffee, friends ask me, what are you doing every Sunday? Well, I'm pouring coffee. Oh, can I come along? Of course. You can [00:17:00] come along [00:17:00] Mark: Okay. [00:17:01] Edward: in the elderly homes. [00:17:03] Yeah. We're recovering in the elderly homes for the elderly people. And they asked, can I come to, can I come for a coffee tour with with elderly and say, of course. And the first time they came and I liked it very much. The second time they came along, but the third time they stopped. Almost every friend friends stopped. The third time and I asked him, why do you stop? Well, I did my part and it's nice that you do it, but I stopped. And then I thought, hmm, maybe I can make a pay it forward formula. What if I ask people who wants to donate four hours of his life? And that's not much, of course. [00:17:47] Four hours of his life. Who wants to donate four hours of his life? Go with me, pour coffee with the elderly for two hours. A week later, go back, pour coffee for [00:18:00] two hours. Then you have spent four hours. But the second time, bring a friend. And that friend also does the four hours and brings a friend. And then you had, like, Pay it forward and that worked, that worked. So in that period of time, there were 2, 500 people who wanted to pour coffee with the elderly, [00:18:22] great [00:18:23] Mark: I hope it wasn't just in the one old people's home. There were multiple [00:18:27] homes. [00:18:29] Edward: it was across the Netherlands. [00:18:32] Mark: you must have been at this stage, people must have started talking about it. Were you getting some PR [00:18:39] Edward: yeah, [00:18:39] Mark: news about this? [00:18:40] Edward: well, I got a lot of PR because I placed it on Facebook and then, people saw it on Facebook. Then I got interviews and after the interviews And they asked me, can you do a TED talk? So, okay, I will do that. [00:18:56] And that was very special. That was very special [00:19:00] because I thought, how can I make social impact? With my TED talk, because I wanted to do something good. And I started my TED talk with showing a small video of Mevrouw van Huijs, was 98 years old. And she told us how important it is to make connection with each other, young and old people, and that we can learn from each other. [00:19:29] And she told it in a video for. Maybe a minute or so after that, I told my story and at the end of the TED talk, I said to the audience what you don't know about Mevrouw van Huis, who you just have seen on the video, that she didn't had a visitor for 10 years. Can you imagine? 10 years without any visitor and I said to the audience, if we don't do something right now, she will die lonely. [00:20:00] And what we can do, I said to the audience, pick up your phone. So everyone picked up his phone, turn it on. I made an agenda for her online so you can make an appointment right now. And if you don't know, if you know people, share it on Twitter, Facebook. And at that moment, mevrouw Van Huis, who was first in the video, came on stage, live. [00:20:23] Well, people cried, people [00:20:25] Mark: wow, [00:20:26] Edward: And it was so nice to see that people cried, made an appointment. And within a week, her whole agenda was, was, was built for two days. [00:20:38] Mark: wow, [00:20:38] Edward: Yeah, it was great. So she didn't die lonely. [00:20:42] Mark: Wow. So. I mean, I mean, that was that journey you've been on, the 2, 500 people going across the Netherlands. You went to the TED talk, you created the online booking form for her so people could spend time with her, learning from her. But from there, where did you go? [00:20:58] Edward: Well, from [00:21:00] there I thought, hmm. When I was in the woods, I wrote down I want to help people. And this way I helped Mevrouw van Huis, the elderly people. Then I thought, wouldn't it be nice if we share stories in a theater about everything what happens. In the world, for instance, loneliness can be, be everything and ask people to help a person. [00:21:27] For instance, we talked about loneliness. Can you help me? But you can also talk about a child who has cancer and ask if someone can do something for that child. And then I thought, maybe I have to create a tour. And then I created the social impact tour. And the social impact tour is about stories. From NGOs like Amnesty International or Make A Wish or well, you or Greenpeace and then ask [00:22:00] the audience to do something for them. [00:22:01] So uh, that started, in 2019 Corona period. [00:22:07] Mark: Yeah, exactly. So that put a, that paid and stopped that tour in its tracks. Okay. one of the things we talked about when we first spoke was that you did something very bold and I'd see as quite brave, which is to put your, take yourself right outside of your comfort zone and, go on a tour of the Netherlands yourself. [00:22:30] Um, not not in a theatre, but to live. [00:22:32] Homeless. [00:22:33] Edward: Yep. [00:22:34] Mark: Was it during COVID or was that [00:22:35] Edward: 2018, I think, and it was also because I wrote down, I want to help people And then I thought, Hmm, if I want to help people, make the world a better place, will people help me? And then I thought, let's test it. And of course, you know, you will be helped. And then I thought, let's test it and go out for a week on the streets with a, without [00:23:00] money, without everything. [00:23:01] And I live Harlem. And well, that's by the sea, but I wanted to go downwards to Maastricht and that's at the bottom of the Netherlands. So I placed myself on the streets, homeless for a week without money. And I think that was the. journey, trip I ever made in my life. [00:23:22] Mark: So could you talk about that experience? Because a lot of people, for example, in London, New York, once a year to go and spend a night on the streets with homeless to, to understand what it's actually like. But to do that for a week, to do that without company, to do it without money, is in itself courageous and potentially, I assume, dangerous [00:23:45] Edward: Yes, it was dangerous as well. Well, what I can tell you, I know the very first day, you don't have money and you're hungry. And then you have to beg for your food. And[00:24:00] that first step that you have to take begging for your food, that's so strange because normally I go to the supermarket and I buy things and now I went to a group because I thought, Hmm, when I ask food with a group, with a big family. [00:24:16] So I went to the group, it was a family. There was a grandfather also in the family. And I asked them, can you buy me or give me some food? And his grandfather was sitting like, [00:24:27] Mark: What? On a street. [00:24:29] Edward: yes, on the street. They were on the on the terrace. [00:24:34] And this grandfather was like sitting, looking at me. [00:24:38] No. And I said, Oh, oops, but no, go away. And that was also strange because, well, I'm a nice guy, but go away. And I was walking, by the terrace and someone else on the terrace said, Hey, come to me. [00:24:56] What's your story? And I told my story. this [00:25:00] person said, of course, I will help you. Come with me. We'll go into a restaurant, pick something you like. [00:25:06] Mark: And these people, this was someone from part of the family, the same [00:25:10] family. [00:25:11] Edward: someone else on the terrace because [00:25:12] Mark: Oh, I see. It was a restaurant. [00:25:15] Edward: yeah, [00:25:16] Mark: I mean, it's interesting because we've all been there. We've all been sitting at restaurants in some place, whether it be in, you know, I've had it happen to me in Harlem, in New it's happened in the South of France, it's happened in London, that people, homeless people do come up to you and ask for money It's, it's a [00:25:31] natural sort of thing people will do if they're [00:25:33] Edward: Yes. [00:25:33] Yeah. And I was desperate as well and hungry as hell. [00:25:37] Mark: So that [00:25:37] person they [00:25:38] brought you into the restaurant. [00:25:39] Edward: took [00:25:39] me and it was a, it was a beach terrace. So not a restaurant inside, it was a beach terrace. So he took me and he said, well, to the counter and said. Well, what do you want? And I, I ordered the sandwich. I came back and someone else also on the terrace. So it said, well, I have some fruits. Do you want some fruits? [00:25:56] And then I got some fruits. It's someone else. I have some, [00:26:00] some water and then people help me. And that was great. Of course [00:26:04] Mark: When the guy said, what's your story, what did you say to him? [00:26:07] Edward: Well, I just told them I'm homeless and I want to see if people can help me. Because I believe people have to help each other, but this guy fought different. [00:26:17] Mark: Wow. [00:26:18] Edward: Yeah, [00:26:19] Mark: so you when people asked you, you did say to them, this is almost a social experiment. [00:26:23] Edward: Yeah. but I also, went into a barbecue in a neighborhood and the people told me, well, come here and we have a barbecue and you can eat with us. And at the end of the barbecue, where do you sleep tonight? Say, I don't know. Well sleep with us. [00:26:39] And I didn't know the people and they just offered me their house. And that was, that was the great part. And I also had the scary part because, [00:26:49] Mark: I also slept with the Salvation Army twice, two different places. And there are the homeless people who are addicted. [00:27:00] A lot of people are addicted to drugs or alcohol. But also a person who killed his mother, came back from jail, came out of jail and had to go back into society, but didn't have a job or a big drugs dealer who had a boat full of drugs, went into jail. [00:27:17] Edward: Came back into society, all kinds of stories and, they're inside there. That was a very tough time. That was a very tough time. because they want to me, how do you say it? Attack. Because there, they wanted to attack me and that was, that was scary [00:27:38] Mark: Do you think they [00:27:39] Edward: and [00:27:39] Mark: that you were not a natural homeless person? [00:27:42] Edward: yes, I think so. But the reason why they wanted to attack me was interesting, because in that shelter home where I was, the leader. Has had been killed a month prior before I came and there was a new [00:28:00] leader and he wanted to show the group that he was the leader. And when I came in, [00:28:04] he wanted to show me as well. [00:28:07] I am the leader here. You're new because you're new and you talk nice. You're not the leader. And he wanted to attack me during night, during the night. And he said all kinds of stuff. I'm gonna, I'm gonna get you tonight. I'm gonna kill you. Well, it was the worst night ever that I had in my life. Yeah. I didn't sleep at all. [00:28:28] I think , it was so scary. Eventually he didn't kill me. Of course, but still, yeah. [00:28:34] Mark: Yeah, but that threat must have been quite terrifying. [00:28:37] Edward: It was quite terrifying. It was quite terrifying. I had a sleeping bag. And I didn't close the sleeping bag because I thought when I'm in the sleeping bag and I closed it until here and he jumps me, well, I can go anywhere. So I zipped it open zipped it open. So I could jump out of bed when he wanted to attack me. [00:28:57] Well, and it doesn't sleep nice, [00:29:00] but uh, well, yeah, that's [00:29:02] how it [00:29:03] Mark: Wow. So that, that social experiment of spending that time on the street or, or homeless and testing this hypothesis that are people kind enough to help you? what was your conclusion after the, that week, 10 days on the street? [00:29:21] Edward: my conclusion was maybe, uh, I give the percentage 90 percent of the people are willing to help. Because a lot of people did help me and um, what I also did, I also helped other people when I came across some people, I had conversation and I told my story and they gave me an Apple. For instance, and then I'll ask, how can I help you? [00:29:48] I want to share your story within my network, within Facebook or LinkedIn. So you can also be helped. And people follow me on uh, on social media. So [00:30:00] everybody was helping each other. So I think 90 percent helps. And that's great. That's great. Only you have to ask the question, can you help me? And sometimes people think that's difficult. [00:30:13] Ask for help. [00:30:14] Mark: it's interesting because I interviewed this guy who also lives in, a British guy who lives in the Netherlands called Ashley Oosisken. And he, through, an illness and going through chemotherapy, he realized that sometimes in life you have to ask for help. And I think his realization was that we all have our own. [00:30:37] innate built into us barriers to asking for help that can be cultural, it can be upbringing, [00:30:44] Edward: shame. [00:30:45] Mark: of reasons, yeah. And he set out to try and make people aware that there's a gift in asking for help. Because people have a help gene in them. And what you do by asking for help is you give them a [00:31:00] sense of purpose in their life because people love to help others. [00:31:03] And we don't really think about help in that way, [00:31:06] that it's, that it can be contagious than it's, it's actually an energizing, act of both giving and asking, but it's the asking that is the one, the one that we don't really think about. [00:31:19] Edward: No, [00:31:20] Mark: So I want to go back, you mentioned the social impact tour that you had this idea because you said earlier that you're a creative person, you've thought of something that's completely different. Way of thinking about raising awareness and raising money for those people that need help. [00:31:36] But it's also an interesting way of, leveraging almost a network effect as well. A multiplier effect of building awareness of someone's story to many people at one time. And then inviting them to give help. I mean, I think we've all heard and experienced, I think the term that's used [00:32:00] is the identifiable victim effect. [00:32:02] When we hear the story of a child that's lost or stuck down a well, or 19 boys in a cave in Thailand, versus a million people affected by a tsunami. We can associate more and have empathy more for the individual story. And that seems to be from what you've said is what you're doing with this, this social impact tour, given it was, it was, paused it with COVID. [00:32:28] And now that COVID is hopefully sort of passed. [00:32:31] Edward: Yeah. [00:32:32] Mark: How do you see this, this tour evolving? [00:32:35] Edward: Well, still the same as it's. started because I call it ambassadors story ambassadors. Was an ambassador for the lonely people, for instance, and I still see it. Okay. I'm looking for ambassadors. I want to tell stories. About something [00:33:00] about loneliness and I'm placing an ambassador and ask the audience to help them. [00:33:05] So eventually it's still the same as as in 2019, nothing changed there. [00:33:11] Mark: So how do you, activate this? Let's say, how do you um, identify the stories, find the willing NGOs to participate in it? How do you fund it? [00:33:22] Edward: Well, finding the NGOs is the easy part because they know they, they, they think it's, a new way for them. To bring awareness and it's a new way for bank also for fundraising. that's the easy part. What I'm doing at the moment is looking, okay, how can I connect businesses to this story? [00:33:49] Because businesses or companies also want to make social impact. Companies want to, of course, sell their products, but [00:34:00] nowadays company, companies also want to show to the world or the customers, we're also doing something good for the world by making social impact and they ask their employees to do something for a good cause or something. [00:34:15] So what I'm doing at the moment is talking to companies and ask them, Hey, I see on your websites. You make social impact about the nature. About nature or whatever. What about me telling a story about nature? And you fund this. So that's where I am at the moment, going to companies and ask them to help. [00:34:40] Mark: Yeah, I could see it. I could see it working for, for example, where, whether it be, well, Ikea, who are I think they have a major headquarters in Delft in the Netherlands. And they, they, I think one of their, Ikea foundation focuses is on Ikea. [00:34:59] Obviously [00:35:00] a better everyday life for the many people is their mission, and they're focused on, a better life at home. And I, but I also think that, I think, I think education and the environment are both important factors for them. So, for example, I could see that if you found an interesting story about a family or a child that had gone through some sort of transformation, that you could take that story on tour. [00:35:24] I could see it coming to life. I could see it coming to life around someone that survived a cancer treatment, or a child that's going through some trauma. I find it harder to see how you would tell a relevant story about, let's say, rising water levels. Something you're going to experience in the Netherlands. [00:35:45] Edward: Yeah. And, and you're right about that. So it will be the personal stories and not. So fast about the rising levels, but, but, but, but, there will also be stories about [00:36:00] people who work on not the rising water levels, but, well, I just have to find out [00:36:06] Mark: Yeah [00:36:06] I think there's always going to be some sort of human impact there will always be the angle, the human impact angle. [00:36:11] Edward: Yeah. Yeah. [00:36:12] Mark: what we want people to do, if you fill a theatre like you did with the TED talk, and you've got the social impact tour, and it's on tour in the Netherlands, and going to Belgium, and going to France, You fill a theater. [00:36:23] What your, what will be your expectation for people to do? Yeah, [00:36:30] Edward: It has to be something very easy to do in the theater. And I think sharing the story or sharing something, that's the most easy way. Because everyone has a phone and everyone can share. And if people share things, they can help as well. [00:36:48] I have an example. You know, of course, Amnesty International. Amnesty writes letters to, directors of prisoners. So someone is taken [00:37:00] prison into a foreign country, maybe has a death sentence. And then MC said, no, he's not guilty. And they ask people to write cards. These cards they sent to the the prison. [00:37:14] And sometimes they They come free, they are free, or sometimes they can have, more family, better food or a better bed or something. And the idea I had for Amnesty, I thought, hmm, what if I am in the theater, tell a story about someone who is locked up. Make a movie of the person and ask thousand people to pick up their phone and to share that movie all at once. What will happen if thousand people share one movie on social media all at once? And before that, I will also ask people. To join online and what will happen if 5, 000 people shared at once. And I think that's [00:38:00] something very easy. And if you do that, well, I don't know what happens, but I can imagine something happens on social media. [00:38:06] So it has to be something like that. Something very simple. [00:38:09] Mark: I'm just going back and trying to look at I mean we worked in advertising and one of the things we talked to Clients about in terms of storytelling is you've got to find that red thread that takes you through the storyline of an idea, the consistency. And I think the red thread that's, that's running through your story is apart from the kindness is actually the fact that you're, you're leveraging the power of story to affect and change people's lives. [00:38:40] You know, through the ads you make, through the direct mails you did. And now through this, you're recognizing that the power of an emotional story to engage people, to move them, and then to activate some form of reaction in them, which is very, which is very powerful. And I can see why [00:39:00] that brands. Many brands, yeah, they go down the same route, the same path with [00:39:06] Edward: Yeah, [00:39:07] Mark: their [00:39:08] philanthropy and making just statements on their website, putting money into NGOs, sending their staff to activate employee engagement on day tours to go and see what's happening in the field. [00:39:21] But this feels like it's an original, a fresh and unusual way. That brings together both audiences, employees and businesses in a completely new venue. [00:39:35] Edward: Yeah. [00:39:36] Mark: I mean, what's been the reaction so far that you've had from people? [00:39:39] Edward: By helping others, you mean? [00:39:43] Mark: Just generally of the idea of the Social Impact Tour. [00:39:46] Edward: Oh, well, find everyone where, where I talk about is, ah, this is great. They all like it. They all like it because, well, maybe the same when I got [00:40:00] homeless or what we talked about it. People like to help people, people like to be in a community and it feels good when you can help someone else. So maybe 90 percent the same 90 percent because there are also people who think, well, I don't think it's a good idea. [00:40:18] it a good idea. And um, I know the first is always the most difficult by far, [00:40:25] Mark: Yeah. [00:40:25] Edward: but when the first one is going, well, I think then we'll fly [00:40:31] for sure. [00:40:32] Mark: it must be the same with the first cup of coffee that you pour [00:40:35] Edward: yeah, [00:40:36] Mark: the first time you go in there. [00:40:38] Edward: it's, yeah, it was also, I was alone [00:40:41] Mark: Mhm. [00:40:41] Edward: then I had 2, 500 people who wanted to pour coffee. Yeah, yeah, that's the same. That's the same. And I just started again. So maybe within a year when we talk well, it flies. But I just started again with with the tour. [00:40:57] Mark: so when will be the first[00:41:00] when will the tour kick off? [00:41:06] Edward: the most difficult, but I'm helping a guy now at the moment who has his own theater tour and he had played 105 theaters last year and he wants a new theater tour in 2025 and he is well. Well, well known in the Netherlands, or else you can't play in 105 theaters. [00:41:28] And I asked him, can you help me? And what I did, I asked him, can you help me? I want to help you with your new tour. I'm creative. I can do the fundraising. I can do ticket sales. But when you are going on a, on your tour and he wants to play in 12, 12 places this time, when you play on Saturday and Sunday. [00:41:51] Can I use your, decor, how you see it, and play on Friday? In the same theater, and then we can [00:42:00] split cost. So that works. And then I can, then he helps me and I'll do my tour with him. So that's the idea at the moment. And he wants to start in 2025. So that's why I said 2025. [00:42:13] Mark: it's a bit like going on tour with a band and you're the support band. [00:42:17] Edward: Yeah, [00:42:18] Mark: Yeah, Yeah. [00:42:20] nice. [00:42:21] Edward: he's well known and I'm not, I'm nobody. yeah, [00:42:25] Mark: you're, you're going to use his notoriety and his recognition to go to the NGO and to the brands and the businesses and say, I'm working with this individual. We've got a tour planned. Do you want to participate? Wow, okay. Alright, so have you any ideas as to what the um, the focus of the social impact will be? [00:42:49] Are you, are you looking now for willing NGOs? [00:42:52] Edward: I'm looking now for willing NGOs and I believe in the universe. When you send something out in [00:43:00] universe, it will come back to you. And thank you for this because you are part of it. [00:43:06] Mark: Yeah? [00:43:06] Edward: You are, you are part of, of, of, of the trip. And I know for sure within time and we'll take two, three, four, five months, people will come on my way. [00:43:18] I will tell the story, tell about you. And then people will say, Oh, I have a great story. I can help you. Of course. So I believe that's how it works living in the now. [00:43:29] Now, [00:43:29] Mark: maybe, maybe the fact that I said IKEA, maybe they have to be on your list. [00:43:33] Edward: yes, [00:43:34] Mark: There you go. [00:43:35] Edward: what I thought. So that's a great one. And because you told me Ikea, I thought, huh, I can also do this one and that one and this one. And that's how it works. And then after this, tomorrow I will make a list because of this podcast. [00:43:51] Mark: Yeah. [00:43:51] Edward: So thank you. [00:43:52] Mark: That's good. Okay. Well, I was about to ask you how can Impossible Network help, but yeah, any other ideas we have we can sort of share with you [00:44:00] and that hears this podcast, they can reach out to you and say, Hey, Edward, I've got a, got an idea here, but I mean, in a way, it's Again, it's um, linking it to business. [00:44:11] I mean, you are on a startup journey. what you're doing is you're building your, what we call in startup land, an MVP, a minimum viable product. [00:44:19] Edward: Yes, [00:44:21] of [00:44:24] Mark: Yeah, there you go. That's your MVP. Well, that's going to be really exciting. Can we can we talk just a bit more about you and maybe just Some of the more personal questions, like who or what inspires you? [00:44:39] Edward: course. Who or what inspires me? In the end, I think people in general inspire me. Mothers who raise their children. Fathers who raise their children. People who go to work every day. [00:45:00] To help other people in hospitals, people who go to work every day to make bread for us. And I don't have really like well, Nelson Mandela inspires me or someone big. Of course they do inspire me, [00:45:18] Mark: It's everyday people. [00:45:19] Edward: but everyday people in the end. [00:45:22] I think they inspire me as well because, yeah, and then I never had that one inspiring person neither when I was young, I didn't want to be like someone. no, because I thought, talk to so much people and I think it's inspiring because for instance, sick people. And when you overcome a sickness, that's inspiring or for when you overcome a breakup of a relationship. [00:45:52] How do you do that? That's inspiring. So those kind of people, well, all the people, of course, they [00:46:00] inspire me. If you ask them they are and if you want, and if they want to share their story with you. [00:46:07] Mark: Just a thought, I, I was interviewed for another podcast last week, [00:46:13] Edward: Yeah. [00:46:14] Mark: which I hate being interviewed and I'm not looking forward to, I don't know if I'll be able to bring myself to watch it. But we talked a lot about AI and I'm, I'm doing quite a bit of work to Really understand how I can leverage AI to help people in my life and, not just clients, but just to Over help people overcome their barriers or their fears of AI [00:46:39] Edward: Yeah. [00:46:40] Mark: it And it just struck me that given the the level to which i'm exploring this It might be a worthwhile exercise to do some advanced prompt writing And to see what, an AI like CLOD, which is Anthropic's, tool, [00:47:00] not ChatGPT, but Anthropic might be a better one. [00:47:04] To give it the, the pro a significant prompt that's well thought through, that sets very clear expectations and boundaries. And to really try and unlock where you could take the social impact tour [00:47:20] and particularly in terms of identifying the types of brands and businesses that would benefit from it and making the argument, the rational and the emotional argument. [00:47:32] That would appeal, to these businesses and brands and decision makers. And it would be a fascinating thing to do because it's never been done and because it hasn't got the training data wouldn't necessarily come up with an obvious answer. I think it could be an interesting exercise. So maybe what we have to do is after the podcast, we'll maybe go and do a little workshop and [00:47:54] Edward: Yes. [00:47:55] Mark: it. And it could be [00:47:57] Edward: Yes. Great. [00:47:57] Mark: generates. [00:47:58] Edward: What a [00:48:00] great, what a great idea. [00:48:01] Mark: Yeah, so there you go. That's a, that's a, that's my, offer of help to do that. We can, we can, we can [00:48:08] maybe record it and, and put it out there and see if people can [00:48:11] see what what happens. Yeah. Okay. [00:48:14] We'll do that [00:48:15] Edward: a great story, of course, [00:48:17] Mark: There you go. Yeah, exactly. [00:48:20] Edward: how AI changed the world. So, oh, okay. [00:48:23] Mark: Yeah. [00:48:23] Edward: With a good prompt, of course. [00:48:25] Mark: okay. You said at the beginning just like other human beings, you deal with doubt and, and questioning, but we all face these moments of this quiet moments of uncertainty and doubt in our lives, do you deal with it? [00:48:39] Edward: Well, most of the time it takes me three days. [00:48:44] Two until three days. [00:48:46] Mark: Huh. [00:48:47] Edward: Because When I have a doubt, something, and it's a bigger doubt, the small things, not what to wear today. [00:49:00] First I have a doubt, then I go into fear. What if, [00:49:05] Mark: Mm. [00:49:06] Edward: Well doubt is night one fear is night two. And then on day three, I think what, what could happen? [00:49:14] Just, just do it. So if I have doubts, I need time. I need time and in the end, I know why did I had had this, this doubts? Why did I had this fears? So, uh, a good night's sleep in the end, [00:49:31] Mark: Mm. [00:49:32] Edward: or a walk or, going for a walk with my, with my sons or being with my sons and see them playing. [00:49:39] And then everything disappears. Love. that works for me. [00:49:45] Mark: Okay. [00:49:46] Edward: Yeah. [00:49:47] Mark: you said at the beginning that you're also a dreamer. I mean, this is, I think it's interesting that we, we have our dreams, our goals, our ambitions, our desires.[00:50:00] [00:50:00] Edward: Yes. [00:50:01] Mark: At the other side, we face our doubts, our fears, our uncertainty, [00:50:06] Edward: Yeah. [00:50:06] Mark: that are almost barriers to unlocking and to activating those dreams, those goals, those ambitions. [00:50:14] And it is only action [00:50:16] That actually unlocks, as you said, the universe, the people, the connections, the experiences that take you forward. [00:50:25] Edward: Yeah. [00:50:25] Mark: What do you, I don't know what the question is here actually, but it is just more of an observation in terms of, you talked about, you've got the doubt, the fear, you go for a walk, you take time, [00:50:37] Edward: But [00:50:38] Mark: presumably you then take action. [00:50:41] Edward: and that's the answer you, you, you gave the answer yourself. It is taking action. Because when you have doubts or fears, and when you stay with them all the time, there's no action. You're only in your head. And when I read the book Living in the Now, [00:51:00] I also did more action. And when I read articles, podcasts of people who have made it, they all say the same. [00:51:09] Just take action. Ask people to help you. Make mistakes. Make mistakes. go into action. [00:51:16] Mark: It's funny, I had a guest an interview you should listen to. It's with another ex ad guy called Don Smith. [00:51:24] From last year, who was a, a very, a colleague of mine at an agency in Scotland, and he's now an inventor and he is very much driven by a theory, by a German philosopher, I but it's emergence. [00:51:40] So he doesn't think about Failure and fear, he just thinks we're all in a state of emergence and everything is emerging and we just are on a journey [00:51:52] Emerging into who we need to be and who we, we should be. [00:51:56] it gives him more of a an acceptance of [00:52:00] the ups and downs when things don't go right. [00:52:02] It's just a process of his emergence. And I think there's an interesting philosophical way of thinking. It's almost like a stoic way of thinking about life. So yeah, and just anyway, just a [00:52:13] Edward: and [00:52:14] Mark: reflection. [00:52:15] Edward: I think for the people who are also listening, maybe a question or also for myself, why don't we take You can't take action all the time, but why do we stop? [00:52:28] Mark: Well, it is, it goes back to the word I use a lot in the podcast, which is serendipity. That I think it's, serendipity is only unlocked when you take an action. [00:52:36] Edward: Yeah. Yeah. [00:52:37] Mark: you have a conversation, you go to a place you wouldn't normally go [00:52:43] or walk [00:52:43] Edward: Nope. [00:52:43] Mark: street it's, it's having the curiosity and it's having the courage to do something you wouldn't normally [00:52:51] Edward: out of your comfort zone. I think that's it. Go out of your comfort zone and And when you're always in your [00:53:00] comfort zone, in your job, or in your relationship, or, then you don't take that much action. When you go out of your comfort zone, there's where the action is. Maybe that's the answer. [00:53:11] Go out of your comfort zone, take the action. And there are the beautiful stories in the end. [00:53:17] Mark: And that's what you did with your time on the street. [00:53:21] Edward: Yeah. [00:53:21] Mark: your comfort zone. [00:53:22] Edward: Yeah. And by doing this interview, talking about it. I also for myself think I have to take more action [00:53:30] Mark: Huh. [00:53:31] Edward: and so it also works for me. So thank you again. Well, [00:53:37] Mark: be of this change in life direction you've taken on your kids? Yeah. [00:53:49] Edward: well, the one of 10 months old, I don't know him so much, only 10 months, but the one who is 12 years old. He [00:54:00] sees what I'm doing and he is kind of copying me in the right way. And for instance, we went to a Dusseldorf during Christmas and there was a boy on a violin playing and my son and everyone gave him money and it was cold and it was late and my son thought I have to help him. [00:54:27] And he grabbed into his pocket and he got all his money and he gave it to the boy and it was four euros. He blushed and thought, Oh, what did I do? I gave all my money, four euros. I can, I can buy a lot of candy for, for this. But he did it on his self, not that I said, give it. And I said, but why did you gave it to him? [00:54:51] He deserves it because he's standing and it's cold. And I like his music. And I said, okay, and what feeling does it give? Well, it [00:55:00] gives a great feeling, but now I can't buy candy. Except uh, do you need candy at the moment? No. And I saw him thinking I did the right thing. And then he was proud of himself. [00:55:10] So yeah, well, I did the right thing. in the end I bought in something sweet. So everything was okay. But I see him do it, do that. This was one one thing do that a lot of times. And then I think, well, that's the impact. I am making as a father on him. So, uh, this is a positive impact. If you ask me [00:55:33] Mark: That's very cool. [00:55:35] You talked about the book, The Now, Eckhart Tolle. Is there any other book you would recommend people read? [00:55:42] Edward: the alchemist, [00:55:44] Mark: Ah, [00:55:45] Edward: do you know it? Yeah, [00:55:48] Mark: Okay. Is there any show or movie you think people should watch that they might not have seen? That's important. [00:55:55] Edward: that's a difficult one. That's a difficult one. [00:56:00] I don't follow so much shows. Well, no, I can't say watch this movie. What I always do is when I, when I watch a movie, I like the movies who are based on a true event. And that touches me. And there are a lot of movies of true events, but I can't come up with a title at the moment. [00:56:23] Mark: Well, I'm going to give you one that I think is relevant, to the, what you're doing, which is challenging traditional societal conventions about how we think about a category. There's a great movie on Netflix I'm sure it'll be available in the Netherlands, called The Bank Called Dave. [00:56:43] Edward: The bank called [00:56:45] Mark: Called Dave. [00:56:45] yeah. [00:56:46] Edward: Huh. Interesting. [00:56:48] Mark: so it's a true story about how a guy [00:56:50] in Burnley, [00:56:52] a town in England, the north of England, decided [00:56:55] they'd had enough after the financial crash of bankers, [00:57:00] really controlling the banking industry and what people could borrow and making people bankrupt and helping people in this community by giving them loans. [00:57:09] And he thought, why can't I create my own bank? And I'm going to call it Dave. so it's his story. [00:57:16] Edward: Oh, [00:57:17] Mark: It's absolutely brilliant. [00:57:18] Edward: I like it. I like that. I made, I made a, [00:57:22] Mark: It's not, it's not, it's not a documentary, but the guy is just like if you see him interviewed on the news He's, they've made a movie about him, but it's uh, essentially it's, and he's, he's still doing it So I think it's a very interesting and a journey to follow, [00:57:40] but there you go. [00:57:41] Edward: I will Netflix it. [00:57:43] Mark: Any life hack behavior the last guest I had on, Caroline Arditti, is a great believer in uh, ice baths. Is there anything that you, you would recommend that you think is a good life hack? [00:57:57] Edward: Well, for me, [00:58:00] because I'm in this phase, spend time with your children, which are loved ones, of course, because we, we all have our work, cetera. But me at the moment, spend time with your children. They grow up so fast. And if [00:58:20] you, [00:58:20] don't have children, spend time with the loved ones, your parents, because they can die, eventually spend time with each other. [00:58:28] And life is good. [00:58:30] Mark: when you told me the story of your father, it made me think of, the brilliant blog post by Tim Urban. Have you ever read it? Called The Tail End. Oh, you should read it. It will very much resonate with you it essentially, the, the essence of it is what you're saying. Spend time with your family because we only have so many days [00:58:54] and it's uh, brilliantly written and it's very well visualized as well. [00:58:59] So you should check [00:59:00] it out. I'll put it, I'll put it in the show notes. [00:59:01] The [00:59:03] Edward: inspired here. Thank you. [00:59:06] Mark: tail end, obviously as part of the podcast, it's about us connecting our guests with other guests. So as long as you're open to it, we'll be making some connections to people we think would benefit from knowing you and you'd from knowing them. [00:59:21] These little random collisions that we like to engineer. So look out for that. And that [00:59:27] Edward: Yes. Great. [00:59:29] Mark: is who should who should I interview next? [00:59:32] Edward: Well, I think maybe the guy I work with or maybe two guys and I'll tell you, I'll tell you why. It's a very interesting story. His name is Teun, it's Dutch, Teun Toebes. And at age 21, he did an education for dementia. Is it pronounced right? [00:59:57] Mark: Dementia. Yeah. [00:59:58] Edward: Dementia [01:00:00] and he did an education and when he went into the, elderly homes or dementia homes, he thought, Hmm, if I am this age, don't want to spend time here. [01:00:12] I want to change the system. And that's a big one, eh? Change the system. And then he thought. If I want to change the system, I have to go into the system. So what he did, normally when you're 21, you go study, go on rooms, party, etc. But he went into the dementia home on a closed section and lived with the people with dementia on a closed section. [01:00:39] Well, that's great. 21 years old. [01:00:41] Mark: Wow. [01:00:42] Edward: He wrote blogs, did some vlogs, then he wrote a book. This book is in 12 countries at the moment. And in this book, he is telling people how you can change the system. He made a documentary. The documentary is [01:01:00] going also to different different countries. He made his, a theater tour. [01:01:05] That was the guy on a [01:01:07] Mark: Mm hmm. [01:01:07] Edward: theater tours. And his premiere of the theater tour was at the G20 top. [01:01:13] Mark: Oh, wow. [01:01:14] Edward: That's where all the countries come. The [01:01:17] Mark: Yeah. Yeah. [01:01:18] Edward: top. He's 24 at the moment. [01:01:20] Mark: Okay. Right. Well. [01:01:23] Edward: his story, well, great, I think he's very inspiring. Yeah, [01:01:28] Mark: Okay. once this, this episode goes live next week I'll ask you to make a connection. [01:01:34] Edward: I'll do. [01:01:35] Mark: Excellent. Well thank you very much, Edward. It's very inspiring to see what you're doing. We're going to be following it with much interest. [01:01:43] And, we'll follow up at some point in the next week or so. [01:01:47] We'll get this episode out and then we'll do our, our little AI prompt writing [01:01:51] exercise [01:01:52] Edward: Looking forward to it. I'm really looking forward to it. Thank you, Mark. [01:01:56] Mark: That sounds good. Okay. Well, thank you very much. [01:02:00] And we'll soon. [01:02:01] Edward: Speak soon. [01:02:03] Bye. [01:02:04] [01:02:04]